Discussion in 'Heritage rolling Stock' started by craig w, Oct 5, 2011.
Does anyone know the LMS colours for the interior and exterior of a 20T LMS Brake Van
Depends on period, number and type for the exterior, although I believe cream was fairly universal for interiors. The basic difference is bauxite for fitted, grey for unfitted but it is more complicated than that.
The quickest way to find out would be paint it whatever colour you fancy, and wait.
You'll soon get lots of messages telling you exactly what colour it should have been!!
If this help's to get the right colour the works plate had on it 730687 , Derby 1940 and it has vacuum brakes on it and would cream and black for the inside be right
It would have been bauxite but it's nothing to do with whether it was fitted or not, that was a BR idea. LMS used grey before about May 1936 and bauxite afterwards, regardless of braking. There was also a change from large to small LMS lettering at about the same time (although maybe not quite - I can't quite remember). Then there was even smaller wartime lettering to save paint, although whether this had been adopted by 1940 I'm not sure. For details see LMS Wagons Vols 1 & 2 (I can't remember which one has the section on liveries but it is quite good).
If we assume that a coat of paint lasts 10 years then:
I have an LMS box van which was built in 1934 (grey) which would have been repainted bauxite in the mid 40s, but was unfitted, so BR would have repainted it grey, before they converted it to vacuum in the late 50s and painted it bauxite, following which it was stripped of vacuum gear and sold to Bristol Port Authority (not sure what colour they painted it, though there is evidence of a bluish grey under later paint...) prior to preservation after which it got painted bauxite. Beat that!
Has anyone out there managed to vac brake a through piped 20Ton LMS BrakeVan?? if so, details would be most appreciated.
Depending on the ballast weights underneath I suspect it may be impossible...? Were any LMS design brake vans actually vac fitted from new? I know some BR ones were, and SR ones built for the Army, but that's about all I can think of. And I can't see why you'd want to anyway, unless for some reason you want to run it in a passenger train.
I may be getting confused with another design of brakevan but isn't there a 20T LMS brakevan out there with the vac cylinder inside the cabin, hidden in one of the locker/seats? North Norfolk?
Jamie is right, it would be Bauxite, although at least one paint company I know calls this BR freight Brown. I don't have the exact infomation to hand and won't have for a few weeks, but if anyone has the RAL number for it, it may be usefull.
We get our 'bauxite' paint from Chirk Auto Paints. They call it 'Llangollen Railway Venetian Red' & it is an enamel gloss.
Bauxite and Freight Brown are two different colours. Freight Brown was a later colour used on some wagons in the TOPS era.
These were the British Transport Commission post nationalisation colours, the LMS was the same except that the inside of the brakevan would have been all over BS381c 226 (Middle Brunswick Green) with a white ceiling.
The NRM has a Queen Mary brakevan in the museum painted this way.
B.T.C. Spec. 32A For Covered Vehicles & Vans
13 Canvass Roof Paint.
14 .....................Finishing Paint.
20 Stone Colour for Brakevan Interiors above 3' 6"...........B.S. 381C 361 Light Stone
16 Freight stock Red for lower walls up to 3' 6" & external body on fitted & piped vehicles……….BS 381C 446 Red Oxide
30 Freight stock Grey for unfitted vehicles...................B.S. 381C 693 Aircraft Grey.
75 Pale cream emulsion for interior wood surfaces of containers and vans..........B.S. 2660 4-056 of 1955. (Nearest B.S 4800 10 C 31.)
The book British Railways Brakevans & ballast ploughs By Eric Gent published by The Historic Model Railway Society ISBN 0-902835-16-5 will give precise details and the original schematics provided you have the identification number, whilst The LMS Wagon by RJ Essery and KR Morgan D&C Herritage ISBN 9781446305850 will give you details of how to mix the paint - although this is now not a legal paint to use due to heavy metals content. We have investigated this at NIRT as we are currently renovating our BR 950061 brakevan - see http://trains.workisboring.com/brakevan - for anything post 1952 Bauxite - html #7a2214 or RAL 3011
We have two at Bowes, both LMS vans and both vac fitted.
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