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Saint Class 135 ish mph

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Reading General, May 5, 2017.

  1. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Given those figures I get the same result: one wheel at a time would lift at speeds above 103 mph. The ride would surely then become very rough indeed, whatever it was like below that speed. However we don't know (or do we?) whether the proportion of reciprocating weight balanced to give those figures was the same as on 2903 at the time of the alleged event.

    I see no reason to disbelieve Collett's account, both that they went very fast and that they had only a very rough idea quite how fast. If the balancing was as above then the speed can hardly have been more than 103. But maybe the balancing then was different, in which case the speed might have been higher, though anywhere near 120 mph seems extremely implausible.
     
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  2. Courier

    Courier New Member

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    It may or may not have got a bit rough - but whether that limited the speed was up to the men on the footplate. Perhaps some group psychology at work - who is going to be the one that says "enough!"

    Someone asked about hammer blow on an A4 at 126 mph - my calculations are....
    LNER A4 Hammer Blow.jpg
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Only if it goes at 135 mph. Or is that 120 mph? Or is that 100 mph? And as long as you don't fall off whilst checking the temperature....
     
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  4. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn New Member

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    I'm pretty sure Bellerophon can be fully prepped from the outside as far as the driver is concerned (other than a look under for examination). I'm fairly confident on this not least because with pretty much all the space between the frame occupied with well tank, there isn't really anything in there to do anything to... on the other hand, for the fireman, ashing out without a pit is essentially impossible...
     
  5. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    You confirm my suspicion - that the braking tests were a cover story, and at most a secondary motive for the run.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. 30854

    30854 Active Member

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    Fascinating document, that. As a near total ignoramus in matters of chassis design, might I ask whether hammerblow and corresponding wheel lift are able to be mitigated to any extent by adjustments to suspension?

    Forgive me if it's a daft question, but it results from a recorded comment about the sole reliably timed high speed (for 3ft gauge!) run by a Cavan & Leitrim 4-4-0t from Ballinamore to Dromod. The loco selected was chosen specifically because of the bogie springs (it had recently been outshopped with amended suspension), and was considered the most stable of it's class. In this case, the reason for the run was to enable a visiting party of dignitaries from head office to make the last mainline connection of the day from Dromod to Dublin.
     
  7. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Member

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    :D

    I'll put a couple of trailers on behind for safety then...

    Currently my two kids are playing wooden track Thomas the tank engine on my lounge room floor. They insist on running every single carriage behind the engine, (16!). The derailments are getting way out of hand. I am trying to convince them that if they run light engine they can go safer and faster - they just don't get it either... :Banghead:

    What hope do I have in here... :(


    Ok, back to serious business...
     
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  8. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Yes and no. Westinghouse were involved and staff were on board the test trains. The LNER streamliners were double blocked so a quick service application valve was being trialled in the hope of reducing stopping distances and thus remove the need for double blocking. OK, Gresley had decided to have a go at Coronation's 114mph British record but several brake tests were carried out at 90 mph and 100 mph on the down run.
     
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  9. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    Thanks


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  10. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton New Member

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    well , not synchronised , but the correct time would be pinged down the line every day , so they would have been pretty close .

    I have seen it written (by O S Nock I think, so make your own judgement ) that all the kings were tested on the stretch of line in question before they were released to traffic -
    light engine , into 3 figure speeds , with the works manager on board .
    make of that what you will.

    the saints were fitted with bogie brakes at that time so a bit of help there , and I guess a bit of reverse gear and a bit of regulator would help to slow things down ? dunno - i'm not an engineer
     
  11. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton New Member

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    just thought some may like this 2907LadyDisdain.jpg
     
  12. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Pretty close to the minute, so not much error there then only up to 60 seconds....
     
  13. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I'd like to apply back steam at 135 mph...
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Then don't go there!;)
     
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  15. Hermod

    Hermod New Member

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    EU,USA,Australia etc have worker protection laws stating that if a workplace vibrates more than 0,5m/sec/sec management shall do something about it .
    If 1,15m/sec/sec management goes to prison.Two cylinder locomotives are big vibrators and a Brit doing 5.7 rev per second with a very tigth coupled tender is illegal.
    If GWR or National Pride is at stake, a small experimental rerun can be made easily:
    A Hall is run with a small brake parachute from a Tornado and if wheel revs are the same as the Saint values footplate misery,coal consumption etc will be very close.
     
  16. gricerdon

    gricerdon Active Member

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    The IHP required to reach even 120 mph would be impossibly high, as indeed it would have been for the famous 104 mph down Wellington bank. Just not feasible.
     
  17. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    no doubt but I recall Science says the Bumble Bee cannot fly.
     
  18. 30854

    30854 Active Member

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    I believe it's now been proved the Bumble Bee can fly, though possibly not by respectable scientists. :Droid:
     
  19. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Part of the furniture

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    Interesting to see this rule applied to a Pacer on the Settle Junction - Carnforth line....
     
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  20. Jimc

    Jimc Well-Known Member

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    You recall wrong - or at least you've been told wrong. Its a popular myth.
    The science of bumblebee flight is well understood. Its an interesting comparison, because it seems (eg http://www.snopes.com/science/bumblebees.asp) that originally, quite possibly as a semi joke, someone calculated that bumblebees can't fly in the aeroplane manner with fixed wings. Which is true enough, and why, unlike say birds and butterflies, you don't see bumblebees gliding with their wings still.

    Its a nice example of an over simplistic calculation with some critical factors missing providing the wrong answer.
     
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