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Rotting away?

Discussion in 'Heritage rolling Stock' started by PolSteam, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    Possibly, though you neglect the role of good old fashioned opportunism.

    I will agree, however, that having clear goals and a strategy by which to achieve those is an excellent idea, whichever way you approach it.
     
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  2. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member Friend

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    I agree a good strategy will include the ability to respond to opportunities as and when they arise. A strategy which solely consisted of waiting for such opportunities would be a bad one.
     
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  3. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Again, the NYMR now has an off-site workshop, albeit for components rather than complete vehicles, and is also negotiating off-site storage - but in the latter case the storage site is one that has been approached several times over the years and previously refused. In the utopian world of PaulH they would probably have rolled on their backs at the first time of asking but the real world is not like that, something he seems to have a problem accepting!
     
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  4. Rosedale

    Rosedale Member

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    Has the MOD ever been approached regarding storage on vacant land at Catterick Garrison?
     
  5. Mogul

    Mogul New Member

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    For many years we have been trying to get access to the old BP oil and gas transfer depot at Furzebrook. This was beyond the railways motala boundary until we signed the new 100th lease for the whole line up to the mainline junction. we have been through a long process of getting the old tempory mineral extraction planning permission changed to perminant rail use and are still working on complex three way lease negotiations but are optimistic that we will be able to access it soon. We then need to obtain more planning permission for cover sheds but the site is quite large.

    We are also progressing some options in the Heston area where we would ideally concentrate all our maintenance facilities. Again this would be lease.

    We have found that landowners joining the railway have a very inflated idea of what they think the land is worth to us And this really inhibits progress.
     
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  6. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    I give up with this thread.

    Apparently, the IOWSR are marvellous because they've got wonderful facilities, which is itself due to their wonderful strategy and that is railway is generally ... well ... wonderful. (Sounds like something Trump would say).
    (All) Other railways apparently need to be more successful, even though we don't actually know what if any access they have to suitable land, how much they've done already or what plans they have in the future when circumstances become more favourable, for example when existing landowners die off or move.

    This sort of generalised criticism of (all) other railways, based on the specific success of one is totally unhelpful. You might as well criticise the Foxfield Railway for not being flat enough, because we all know that's bad for maintenance, fuel economy etc etc. They really should be more successful at flattening out their hills. Never mind that's where the railway line was originally built, they should have a better strategy and be more successful ... and bigly about it.
     
  7. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Active Member

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    Other than referring to an unnamed railway refusing an offer from a member to pay for a plot of land adjacent to its main site, I do think that I have even once said that it is something that all other railways can or should do.

    If you are proud of the Railway that you work on is it a crime to show your pride?
     
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  8. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    Unfortunately, pride isn't a recognised currency when it comes to buying land, assuming it exists, is available, and has no planning restraints. [sorry guys, my needle's got stuck again]
    Those maintaining and restoring rolling stock using ladders and scaffolding in the open air have just as much pride in their work as those fortunate to work in workshops. In some ways, I'd say they have more because they have to do it more often, in unpleasant weather and probably with fewer other volunteers who are prepared to work in those conditions.
    Did you mystery railway give any reason for turning down the donation? Could they actually build on the land? Do they have other plans?
     
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  9. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Active Member

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    The platforms at Bridgnorth station were my workshop during the 1970s when painting coaches, Bridgnorth loco yard when painting Locos before the coming of the shed and yes I am very proud of what was achieved in sometimes appalling weather.

    Martin said in post 118 "you have got to have a bit of land where you can build your carriage shed in the first place" to show that we did not initially have enough land I briefly said how we gained enough land to build our storage shed. Others have built on that I and I have added a little detail when asked.

    I hope that I steer clear of criticising any Railway, I try to inspire, to show what the IOWSR achieved long before I came onto the scene.

    I do not know why the unnamed Railway turned down the offer, the car park could have moved onto the adjacent plot so that the old car park could be developed, No other plans that I was party to.
     
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  10. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Well, negotiations which spread over several years, partly for reasons of price requested, hardly indicate any degree of "rolling over" on the part of landowners. Is @30854 right to detect a degree of the green eye here? Not for me to say but the basic truth of the title to this thread should never be lost sight of.

    PH
     
  11. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    There is no green eye there at all. Nobody resents or is jealous of what IoWSR has achieved. It is just that you cannot accept that other railways are not just able to acquire extra land just because they want it or need it.

    The situation is one I understand because I occasionally receive correspondence from people wanting to buy my business premises, which I just ignore because firstly suitable alternatives are scarce due to development and I don't want the disruption to my business. Now imagine my property was adjacent to the NYMR and was the only suitable location for storage sheds (it isn't in either case), the railway would have to wait until I retire and sell up to buy it. That could be another twenty five years yet.

    These real world problems don't go away no matter how much you wish them away.

    Sawdust.
     
  12. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    I take you point but there is always a price. Whether the prospective purchaser will pay it is something else.

    PH
     
  13. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    I'm 100% certain that we are all proud of what we have achieved, but the recurring theme of PaulH's posts is that, like the IoWSR, we all could have achieved extensive carriage sheds and workshops by now and we just haven't tried hard enough! That simply isn't true and is both patronising and insulting to those of us who have fought all the way for better facilities for the restoration and protection of our restored stock, yet recognise that there are many different calls upon a railway's cash, whether they are loco overhauls or track renewals or bridge replacements. Some of these are "once in a lifetime expenditures but they still have to be fitted in and must take priority if the railway is to be kept running. It might be argued then that the NYMR is too long,and should run only from Grosmont-Goathland, but that then ignores a number of factors, namely that Grosmont-Goathland is where all the main civil engineering is anyway and that it was the National Park who encouraged the nascemt railway to extend to Pickering because they could see the benefits it would bring. As always, these comments apply to the NYMR, but all railways have differing issues and priorities, and it seems to be a general truism that carriage storage sheds can generally only be afforded once a railway has reached a certain stage in its development.
     
  14. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Everywhere makes mistakes, absolutely without exception. This one is though, IMHO, one of the biggest made by tourist railways in general

    PH.
     
  15. toplight

    toplight New Member

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    The problem with land purchases is that the land is worth very different amounts depending on if it is sold as farmland or say for housebuilding. Farmland might be worth say 18k a hectare but then if planning permission for housing is granted it is probably is worth at least 10 times more. In many areas where towns/villages etc are expanding no doubt many local farmers are thinking, well if I just wait a decade or so I can sell it for housing and get many times more for it.

    Also added to the fact if you approach said Farmer and say, Can I buy your field he is inevitably going to expect considerably more than the market price as you have approached them.
    Just like if I put my house on the market I can only expect the market price, but if someone asks on spec, Can I buy your house ( Yeah for 2x or 3x market value) as I haven't put it up for sale.

    I know from the railway I am involved with we have good relations with some of the neighbouring farmers and poor relations with others so some potentially useful land might be off limits as the farmer is not supportive.
    Railways also that have leases instead of owning their own railway have to take that into account when applying for grant funding etc too.

    I can imagine some railways in more urban areas may get NIMBY complaints which makes it difficult to get planning permission even if you do have the land.
     
  16. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Don't disagree with a single word save that NIMBYISM is not confined to any particular sort of area.

    PH
     
  17. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad Member

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    One example of something currently being rescued after almost disappearing ...

    [​IMG]
    1001 things - derelict brake
    par StoneRoad2013, on Ipernity

    Work has just started, and a few more donations will always be welcome !
     
  18. toplight

    toplight New Member

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    102_0292.jpg 122_2242.jpg Here is some pictures of my own project, Hard to believe sometimes how bad it was. Getting there now though. So that old Linear Scrapyard wreck, it can be done ! The derelict pictures were taken in 2004 before starting.
    View attachment 31243
    View attachment 31245

    upload_2017-10-25_21-57-37.png

    upload_2017-10-25_21-51-23.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  19. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Well-Known Member

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    At the expense of pointing out the obvious, the IOWSR has a unique collection of elderly vehicles which clearly cant sit outside in all weathers unlike the proverbial MK1 which I suggest may well have concentrated the mind in a way it did not on lines with more modern stock.....................
     
  20. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Perfectly plausible, although there is some evidence that teak bodied stock at any rate may be more durable than Mk.1s. One in particular ended 30+ years as a summerhouse in sound condition on account of its thatched roof!

    Unity of ownership of land and other assets would assist as well.

    PH
     

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