If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Rotting away?

Discussion in 'Heritage rolling Stock' started by PolSteam, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. PolSteam

    PolSteam Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    129
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, owner of Wickham type 17a TP57P
    Location:
    Fleet, Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Hi Guys!

    I know, every railway has stock lying unused. and rotting in a siding. The odd Industrial loco, wagon, and even coach, not worth doing up, because it was, beyond economic repair [Every Barry loco was deemed that, Pre 80!], or the owners have vanished [probably passed away], and nobody is interested in it.

    I remember the days of Barry Rescue, and Francis Blake of Barry Locomotive Action Group, when every engine was fought for and saved, but today there are forgotten gems everywhere crying out to be either sold or given away, to some of the new railways which have volunteers, but nothing to work with and restore, or lines trying to build up goods trains. Departmental coaches could be restored as works train coaches, rather than left to rot under a tarp!

    So, how about trying to find a new home for these forgotten relics, and give them a chance for a new life?
     
  2. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    13,828
    Likes Received:
    4,167
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Money talks.
    If any of the new generation lines have money to spend, then relics will change hands.
    It is unlikely that anything will be given away.
     
  3. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    6,743
    Likes Received:
    1,372
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    Care to identify some of these so called lost relics

    perhaps also for the benefit of the forum I think this is for @PolSteam who is seeking a project or two
     
  4. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,529
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The reason many items of stock are "rotting away" is that Mk 1s were available cheaply and with little work needed. Those days are gone and we are seeing more pre-BR stuff being restored, but it takes time and facilities - which the new generation lines do not have. They are in the position that now-established lines were in years ago, they need cheap, serviceable rolling stock or as close as they can get to it. Trying to fob them off with relics will not help them or the relics, they've probably got a better chance of restoration where they are!
     
    Kinghambranch and Thompson1706 like this.
  5. PolSteam

    PolSteam Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    129
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, owner of Wickham type 17a TP57P
    Location:
    Fleet, Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Typical of this forum! They should rename it, as it seems to have noting to do with Active Preservation!

    NP?

    A Joke!
     
  6. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    479
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    You speak for yourself. Almost everyday of my working life for more than two decades has been spent restoring none operational rolling stock, including several rotting basket cases.

    Sawdust.
     
  7. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    7,408
    Likes Received:
    4,256
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Plus at the time when ex departmental coaches were being sold off, suitable seats could be salvaged from the early gen DMU and EMU sets being scrapped, i bet maany Bulleid coaches have seats recovered from scrapped 4 COR units
     
    Wenlock likes this.
  8. toplight

    toplight New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    133
    Location:
    Swindon, England
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Any of these locos/coaches/wagons are potentially for sale if you find out who owns it and gently discuss it with them. If they say no they say no, but perhaps they need more money or to be more convinced that you will actually restore it. Some are in that situation because owners have got old and lost interest but in many cases groups are restoring one item in the workshop while another waits its turn in the queue.

    Some people think there are hundreds of buyers out there desperate to buy that derelict wagon/coach/loco or whatever but often nobody wants it (apart from a scrapman). I think that will be the case even more so in the future as older members get old and few younger people come along. To restore anything from a derelict condition takes a massive amount of commitment in time/money/effort and understandably most people don't want to take that on. Those that are willing to do so have often got their hands full working on existing projects.

    I was quite surprised myself even with the two Stanier 8Fs that were repatriated from Turkey in pretty complete condition, but only one of them found a buyer and the other was sold to a group in Israel and has gone there, Seemingly nobody in Britain wanted it even though they were mostly complete. Same with some of the Barry wrecks that are left, seems few people want them. I wouldn't want one myself, too expensive.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
    Aberdare and Bluenosejohn like this.
  9. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    5,281
    Likes Received:
    1,653
    the 8Fs weren't genuine BR/LMS and that's why noone wanted them

    I think polsteam has raised a good topic here. I beleive there may well be dozens of items of rolling stock stored away in forgotten sidings that might be made available to groups looking for a project. How about it guys? clear some space and give the odd brake van or wagon away. They aren't worth much and won't last much longer in some cases.

    A thread l;ike this could be a clearing house for items available, obviously recipients would have to have the proper credentials etc.
     
  10. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    7,408
    Likes Received:
    4,256
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Dose of realism is needed here, most people who buy an item of rolling stock do so with the dream of one day i will restore it, and they very very seldom will let go of it, in most cases , the owner of a long stored item will most likely not be known to the railway, and they can't even let it go until the owners, or next of kin is found, and how long will that take, for much i think the scrapman will be the only option if its too far gone . i agree that it would, in an ideal world be good for people to let stuff go to others who will restore it, if you can't , but such is human nature its hardly likely to happen,
     
  11. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,529
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I wrote as an active preservationist, responsible for acquiring quite a few "hen huts" that are now on the NYMR, some straight from BR, others from other preservationists. Several of these are now running on the NYMR, others are under restoration, and we (the LNERCA) have done the best we can to stabilise the condition of our unrestored coaches ready for the day when we can start them. Key materials such as teak panels and framing teak, and interior fittings such as light fittings, toilet fittings and so on have been acquired for most vehicles, including those awaiting their turn. So, despite appearances to the contrary there has been progress on most if not all the unrestored vehicles and they have not been forgotten about. I appreciate that not all owners of unrestored stock can say the same but please check your facts before sneering at a reply. After all, it could equally be asked what your restoration credentials are.
     
  12. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    5,281
    Likes Received:
    1,653
    In fairness I don't think polsteam was talking about acquiring vehicles for passenger use. I'd agree that many lines have a store of these which are eventually scheduled for restoration and these wouldn't be surplus and available. I'd say there are though many items , particularly goods stock,leaning on buffer stops that there are no plans for and never will be.
     
  13. William Fletcher

    William Fletcher New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    54
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lincoln
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I enquired after a fairly nondescript narrow gauge disel a few years ago, which I knew had been up a headshunt for 30 years. The owner told me he wouldn't even consider selling, even tohugh I had the cash and a new home raedy for it. Several years on, it's still up that headshunt.
     
  14. tor-cyan

    tor-cyan Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    377
    Gender:
    Male
    actually the problem is not finding a suitable restoration project its finding an organisation who is willing to provide a home for another basket case, and then there is the financial problem of raising the funds just to move it from railway to railway. low loaders are not cheap to hire, to move a coach will set you back anything from £800 upward, waggons will of cause be cheaper but will still cost to move.
    I sold a coach to the LNERCA a few of years a go for a £1 yet it cost over £800 to transport it to the NYMR (I did donate the pound back) so before you even look at the cost of restoring any thing you will have to rase a fair old sum just to get it to you.

    Colin
     
  15. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    13,828
    Likes Received:
    4,167
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Pure speculation.
     
    S.A.C. Martin and Jamessquared like this.
  16. cct man

    cct man Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,229
    Likes Received:
    41
    Occupation:
    CONSTRUCTION
    Location:
    LONDON
    Not so on my own part for some years ago I made serious enquiries about a vehicle in the north of England for serious restoration with funding . The private owner said he would rather see it rot rather than restored either at his Railway or another one, he also said he liked to come and dream and did not want to see it restored.

    Another time in the early part of the 21st century,there was a pre- grouping coach in the south owned by a consortium of individuals who were willing to let it go for the right price on condition that it was restored. This was agreed except for one man who hearing I was a volunteer at a particular Railway threatened to set fire to it rather than let it go even though he explained it was not personnel to myself but this certain Railway he was against.

    So you see friends not everything is at it appears..

    Chris
     
  17. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,529
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think that there's an element of truth that some rolling stock owners do not really want to see their vehicle restored - restoring it, and the social life associated with it, is their hobby and they don't want to lose that. I can understand that point of view, but cannoty for the life of me see why they can't simply complete their project and move on to another! It's not as though most railways have a shortage of candidates.
     
    michaelh, Rosedale and cct man like this.
  18. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    479
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Ah I see the mistake that is being made here. Carriages used by heritage railways are not necessarily preserved but are actually being used until they no longer have a purpose or are beyond economic repair.
    I'm sorry if that upsets people but that is the truth of the situation.

    Expect more carriages to meet a similar fate.

    Sawdust.
     
  19. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    5,281
    Likes Received:
    1,653
    quite a list, how will history see that I wonder?
     
  20. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,155
    Likes Received:
    2,776
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think you've quite badly misinterpreted that post, and massively overreacted Polsteam...

    It's all very well thinking idealistically about re-appropriating things, but there are several realities. One, as has been mentioned, plenty of owners would rather they kept it and nothing ever happened to it than give it away, or even sell it, such that it gets restored. These people are either wild optimists who think they'll get around to it one day, or have some dimmer motive. Secondly, moving unrestored stock around implies that there are some groups who have run out of their own wrecks to do restore and are sat twiddling their thumbs. In both realities, there are of course a few items of stock that might be available, and a few groups who want to build up their stocks of basket cases for forward planning. But I'd suggest those numbers are small, and we already see it happen from time to time. This implies that what is being suggested is already being done to the maximum that it can be given current restraints on owners, restoration groups, and money.
     
    The Dainton Banker, 60017 and Wenlock like this.

Share This Page