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Proposed New-Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. 30854

    30854 Active Member

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    Didn't someone post a photo of a model of that beastie a while back?
     
  2. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    is no 20 unique? I thought it was back converted from saddle tank form and there were one or two others preserved in that form
     
  3. 30854

    30854 Active Member

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    I found this 'ere list of absorbed Cambrian locos.
    http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/cambrian.htm
    The entries which intrigue me are GW Nos.1214/1215. I always thought the two VoR locos (Nos.1&2, which became GW 1212/1213) were the only complete locos which (injector manufacturer) Davies and Metcalfe ever built. I always tend to believe "cock-up before conspiracy", but could anyone shed any light on the matter?
     
  4. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    Maybe, I don't know, I am not a GWR expert. Ive just had a look at some photos of them in their rebuilt form and they are not particularly good looking engines
     
  5. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    Yes, there are two. Both were converted to saddle tanks and sold to a steelworks, where they worked until the late 50s/early 60s. One has been rebuilt to its original form (no 20) the other is still a tank. I don't know where it is now.
     
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  6. Jimc

    Jimc Well-Known Member

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    I think Mr Daniels has got a problem in his list: goodness knows its easily done. There are no such engines mentioned in RCTS part 10. Its hard to keep track of all the number usage and reusage on the grouping absorbed locos in your head, but according to RCTS part 4 1214 was on a Std Goods up until 1929, and 1215 on a standard goods until 1926, so I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers were never used on any of the locos absorbed at the grouping.

    There's more than one version of how the 3521 frames were altered. RCTS I think says the outside frames were reversed and shortened, and the inside frames truncated at the rear and a new piece welded on the front. But as the coupled wheelbase was lengthened it must have been more complicated even than that.

    On the subject of the 3521s in their tank engine form there's a tale from Holcroft of a high speed test run in one, which he likened to being like a terrier shaking a rat!
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  7. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    you can always use freight stock in liue which would look very period.Maybe not for a Single but for many Dean locos any one of which would be a worthy replica
     
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  8. 30854

    30854 Active Member

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    A B&NCR Von Borries and a GS&WR Kerry Bogie ... both 4-4-0?

    Oh..... you meant here! Well howzabout a Highland Drummond 'passenger tank' (imaginative designation, that). A 1902 vintage 0-4-4t with 4'-6" dia drivers and weighing in at just 35t 15cwt in working order, the last of which soldiered on as BR 55053 until broken up in Feb 1958. They even looked rather good in BR lined black. Pity the only shot I can find is in plain earliest BR livery..... sorry! Tell me this isn't a cute little loco.
    thumbnail4.php.jpg
    From the south, another unapologetic plug for my favourite ex-NLR Slaughter Gruning 4-4-0t of 1861 (the last contracor built class on the NLR). With 5'-3" drivers, it weighed in at just 34t10cwt in full working order. The only clear shot I can find online is one in original condition. The IWC example was rebuilt at Bow with a cab and the bell mouthed dome in a more conventional position, with a sand pot between that and the chimney. Beauty is most definitely in the eye of the beholder, but I'd call it a workmanlike design and something very different from a sparsely represented period, plus would "fit" superbly well on the IWSR. The livery in IWC days was a rich shade somewhere between maroon and red, with fine straw lining. It's No.7 was carried within a garter and it bore the name "Whippingham" during most of it's island career.
    Loco_34_lge.jpg.cf.jpg
     
  9. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    galloping gertie or whatever the nickname of that M&SWJR 2-6-0 was should be a shoe-in
     
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  10. 30854

    30854 Active Member

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    Alice or Gertie .... opinion seems to differ. I know some preparatory work was done with a view to a new build at the Swindon & Cricklade, but the project seems to have run out of steam about 8 years ago. AFAICS all reference on the S&CR website has now been taken down. With 4'-0" drivers, pretty much as ideal a design for a heritage line as any tender loco could be.

    The oddball side of my nature is still rather drawn to the SM&AR Avonside single Fairlie of 1878, which must be the first application of Walschaerts valve gear in the country. Wonder who'd be best placed to build that one? :)
    0-4-4t-single-fairlie-hcc.jpg?w=500&h=209.cf.jpg
     
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  11. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Sounds an absolutely ideal candidate for a newbuild, being almost entirely useless! She went to the Paris Exhibition in 1878 along with what is now W11. Unlike the latter there was no Gold Medal and she hardly did a days work in her life. W11 still earns her keep nearly 140 years later.

    Paul H
     
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  12. 30854

    30854 Active Member

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    Aah.... but was the loco really bad? .... or just misunderstood! :D

    Looking at the (one and only known) photo, I've sometimes wondered whether the application of Walschaerts was a case of a valve gear before it's time. Blodge have made some useful advances in flexible steam joints since those days too, although I confess I still haven't the first idea on the one really important burning question .... what colour to paint the damned thing!
     
  13. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    It must be your turn to be revisionist!

    Actually, I have been doing a bit of research about 40/W11's trip to Paris prior to the 140th. anniversary next year. In the course of this I found an account by Anatole Mallett no less, of the locomotives at the exhibition. He was decidedly "Huh" about the Single Fairlie principle (allowing for my imperfect French) thinking that there was no point in the extra complication for no additional adhesive weight.

    He had yet to become a great figure in locomotive engineering but it is still as if Sir Henry Royce had written a review of the Earls Court Motor Show.

    Paul H
     
  14. marshall5

    marshall5 Active Member

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    Wasn't it part of the GWS's 'Three Counties' project to recreate a 4-4-0, 4-4-2T and a 4-6-0? It was some time ago but I think the plan was that the 4-4-0 was going to use the No4 boiler off the Barry 10 52xx already at Didcot, and the 4-4-2T was going to use the No2 off 4115. I seem to remember that the patterns made for 2999's cylinder block and driving wheels were to be used - Swindon standardization again!
    Re the Dean Single. This was, IIRC, a serious plan a few years ago but the chap behind the design work passed away. I'm sure there has been at least one previous thread on these topics. I'm not a big fan of new builds but to my mind a Dean Goods would be a useful addition particularly as a genuine boiler, in reasonable condition, still survives.
    Ray.
     
  15. 30854

    30854 Active Member

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    The Single Fairlie is firmly in the WIB(not too sure what!) category. As I said, most definitely one from my oddball vein.

    The suggestion of IWC (ex-NLR) No.7 is a genuine enough WIBN though, even if it's not exactly one for the immediate future. This would probably be a good place to mention my slight tendency to understatement!
     
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  16. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

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    I believe that the other ex-Furness saddle tank is still on site, deep within the bowels of West Coast at.Carnforth.

    Cheers,

    Alan
     
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  17. ross

    ross New Member

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    My own suspicion is that Hornby, in tinplate O gauge and 00 gauge made many of us aware of what is a really pretty class of locomotive. As the last 38xx vanished 84 years ago, very few people alive can have any recollection of the class except from pictures and those models.

    Can anyone tell me,(county fanboy that I am), what is the origin of the claim that they were such rough riders? I know where I first read it, but where id the story start?
     
  18. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Just go and collect it :)
    Z25.jpg
     
  19. 30854

    30854 Active Member

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    Good idea in principle. Just had a shuftie at the Dorrigo Steam Railway and Museum Railway website and there may be an ever so slight problem, other than the cost of postage. In view of what follows, I'll mention right now that there are recent Facebook updates indicating members are actively and currently working on exhibits.
    http://www.dsrm.org.au/

    If anyone can provide an update to correct or render any/all of the following obsolete ..... I would dearly love to edit out everything after the paragraph above!

    For about the last 30 years, the message has been "The Museum is not yet open to the public". The last website update was on 1st Sep 2013. What gives? ..... well as far as I can see, there are legal wrangles over who actually owns some/part/any of the exhibits. Whether these are between the Museum and the world outside, or between members, or members and the Museum I've not managed to disintangle. Mind you, if it's been going on for three decades, that's not such a shock.

    The Facebook page (I was a bit surprised to find one!) mentions unresolved planning issues between Museum and Local Authorities for non-openingness.
    https://m.facebook.com/pages/Dorrigo-Steam-Railway-and-Museum/135393903162056

    Whatever the hell is going on and whoever the protaganists are, it seems unlikely anything much will be released, unless by court order to satisfy legal costs. The worrying thing is, if it all goes tits up, there's a huge collection at risk. The recent auction of the AHRS collection doesn't inspire confidence and I'd imagine the billing departments of several law firms are already quite excitable enough.

    Is there really something in the water in Minehead, or was someone importing bottled water from Down Under?
     
  20. Jimc

    Jimc Well-Known Member

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    Every loco crew that ever worked them I think. Amongst primary sources K.J. Cook (apprentice under Churchward, later Swindon Works Manager and WR 'C'ME) uses the phrase "Churchward's Rough Riders", and as primary sources go that one is pretty good.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
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