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Proposed New-Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. aron33

    aron33 Member

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    It seems nowadays that the new-build revolution is taking full-swing, and many extinct classes, such as the P2, Patriot, Grange, G5, Clan, Saint, 3MT and others, are being brought back.
    But due to the overwhelming enthusiasm, there have been classes that have been subject for proposed projects, with many never happening.
    Amongst them, are:
    LB&SCR E2
    LNWR Claughton
    LNER J39
    LNER K3,
    and others. If ya'll can think of any others, post on here.
     
  2. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    A lot of the problem has been overenthusiastic use of social media; some people seem to think that setting up a Facebook page is halfway to building their favourite (that week) loco and that contributors will magically appear to pay for it all.
     
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  3. Allegheny

    Allegheny New Member

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    Have a look at this website

    https://newbuildsteam.com/

    As I see it there is a limited pot of money divided between a lot of projects.
     
  4. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    Bang on. There are are several locos I'd love to see built but unless I win the euro millions.....
     
  5. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    A couple more, off the top of my head are GER Claud Hamilton, LNER L1, J50, some NER 4-6-2 tank, A7 I think.
     
  6. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    Metropolitan railway 2-6-4.
    LNER D23.
     
  7. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    That may not be quite the case; the money is not necessarily there to be spent on new-builds in general, although it is also not infinite.
    Each project generates its own income on interest, merit etc.
    My point being that just because I contribute to one project, if that did not exist, my money would not necessarily go to another newbuild instead.
     
  8. Allegheny

    Allegheny New Member

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    Agreed, although by "limited" I didn't mean "fixed". There a few GWR 4-6-0s which will be competing with each other for resources.

    The LNER P1 and the Great Bear are mentioned from time to time.
     
  9. toplight

    toplight New Member

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    The new builds with the best chance are groups that have already established themselves such as the A1 trust, Patriot, G5 showing that they are capable of doing it.

    It is hard for any new group to get off the ground because they don't get credibility until they at least have the frames completed of the new Engine. With the P2 for example they have been able to raise money quickly because the trust has already proven themselves with Tornado.

    I would like to see a Claud Hamilton built by someone. That would be my favourite choice to recreate. If I was to start a new build ( which I am not), I would at least get the money together first to build the frames to kick start the project before really going public with a website and requests for money etc. To many projects start with a website and then make something like a nameplate or bufferbeam and then get no further, some get no further than the website and then any credibility quickly drains away as people think "Never going to happen"

    As David Champion (who started the A1 project) said in one of his articles, the main task is to raise the huge amounts of money needed as you can always find people who can make the parts.
     
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  10. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    There is a Claud Hamilton group but they don't seem to have got very far. As far as I know they have made a buffer beam and that appears to be all
     
  11. 2392

    2392 Member

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    As for the K3 the A1/P2 guys are possibly planning one after their next proposed build a Gresley V4. Once the P2 is completed, the V4 along with a K3 and V1/V3 tank were on their "wish" list with the V4 coming out top with the membership of the Trusts.
     
  12. Johnb

    Johnb Part of the furniture

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    Aron's original post has got it right, enthusiasm seems to have run ahead of reality. If you add up the total cost of all those proposed projects it's enough to pay off the National debt. We've even got the ludicrous situation of two P2s, although I think the Doncaster one will die. If you were wanting to put your hard earned cash into seeing one run again it would go to the group who've done it already.
    There is a good article on funding the future of existing locomotives in SR this month as it gets harder to come up with the money for the 10 yearly out of income, even the MN Loco Society had to ask for donations following the discovery of extra work during its recent overhaul.
    I would love to see a Claud and an ex SECR D1/E1 again as they were familiar to me in my childhood but it ain't going to happen.
     
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  13. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    So many LNER types didn't make it and I think the V4 was perhaps the most versatile/ attractive of the bunch. My second choice would have been an L1...
     
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  14. 30854

    30854 Active Member

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    A group associated with the Swindon & Cricklade were trying to get a M&GWR Beyer Peacock 2-6-0 off the ground. The design is very close to locos supplied to Australia. With 4ft drivers, in many ways it would be a highly suitable design for heritage use, but nothing seems to have happened for over a decade.

    The page refering to the putative project has gone from the S&CR website.... at least, I can't find it any more! All that's left seems to be this long dormant site:
    http://gallopinggertie.m.webs.com/s...lopinggertie.webs.com/&fb_sig_network=fw#1321
     
  15. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    On LNER ones I would agree with either a V4 or K3, probably the K3 as there were many more of them and therefore more representative, only two V4s were built. On the L1, weren't they, by reputation, a bit crap?

    Two others I have heard reference to were from the GWR, a 3800 class county 4-4-0 and the 4-4-2 tank equivalent
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
  16. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    When this project was launched, one of the S&CR members produced a beautifully-made scale model of "Galloping Gertie" for display at Blunsdon. At the time, I assumed that this would in fact be the end result - a fine scale model. This has indeed been the case.
    Slightly off topic, I do wish someone on the Swindon and Cricklade Railway would get a grip of their website - it's a dog's breakfast.
     
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  17. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Agreed that the L1 's were a bit Crap, but the reasons are well known and perhaps easily remedied
    (c.f. B17)
    I find that one of the attractive things about new builds is that opportunity to nudge a design a little bit closer to excellence - given the amount of crapness that is being designed out of the P2 and the slight amount of crapness that is being designed out of the Clan, not to mention the almost worthy of a conspiracy theory crap that dripped off 71000 as it was being restored.
    I remember someone suggesting that a new build 'Ivatt mods plus' Duchess should be considered. Of course there is the ' If we don't include all the original warts we aren't doing it properly' approach as well

    When I was a little bit more naïve I suggested starting a new build standard 2-8-2 and started writing the prospectus etc -caught some crap for that...:Wacky:
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
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  18. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    I struggle a bit with the reasoning behind the P2. No disrespect at all intended to the team behind it who are doing am amazing job, but it would not be something I would ever have contemplated. Only 6 were built, and there were two distinct varieties so only 3? looked alike. It was more or less confined to one route in Scotland and caused issues with the track due to the long wheelbase. They were also rebuilt as Pacifics before nationalisation so none, in their original form, reached BR.

    We have been talking about Claughtons in another thread and I think they are a better suggestion. 130 built, used extensively on the LNWR/LMS system, in service for a much longer period (1913-49) one reached BR, although it didn't carry its allocated number, and would be much kinder to the track.
     
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  19. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Well-Known Member

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    Lots of people DO want to see a P2, though, and she is a classic example of knowing your prospective supporters and their numbers before even cutting metal. OK, the A1 Trust are now streets ahead of many building groups - they have a proven track record, but nevertheless, if the support wasn't there, then the build wouldn't have seen the remarkable progress that we see.
     
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  20. toplight

    toplight New Member

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    I like the choice of the P2. It is an iconic locomotive design that was missing. I like also that they are doing the Lentz valve gear and the original front end although I fear they may have to change that to the A4 style front later in the same way as the originals. The only thing I am not so keen on is the choice of name, I understand they want the link with Prince Charles but the name itself "Prince of Wales" is not very inspiring and also not on a Scottish theme as per the names of the original locos.

    The Galloping Gertie project never got started really and the people behind it have largely moved on hence why the website has been taken down.
     
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