If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Narrow Gauge New Builds

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by SpudUk, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    1,556
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hayling Island
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    An american prototype that certainly is a very pretty thing is the "Portland Forney" o-4-4T which was used by most of the Maine 2ft. gauge lines. The last survivor is Wiscasset, Waterville and Farmington No.9 recently returned to service.

    PH
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  2. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    532
    Likes Received:
    86
  3. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    13,696
    Likes Received:
    4,052
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Looks like it wasn't called on to move at any sort of speed ... :)
     
  4. ross

    ross New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    79
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Titfield
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Because a high maximum speed is essential on British 2' gauge railways....
     
  5. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    1,556
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hayling Island
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    This comment puzzles me for a number of services on the Maine 2ft. gauge like the "Rangely Express" were known to run at such speeds as to be rolled off the track!

    PH
     
  6. lynbarn

    lynbarn Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    727
    Likes Received:
    130
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    cat watching
    Location:
    Kent
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The avarage speed on a mainline 2ft gauge line in the UK is around 20mph so not that fast, but fast enough, at the recent L&BR Gala at Woody Bay I managed to have a long chat to James Evans (He who built LYD) and we where chatting away with a couple of possibility's one is a super Fairlie for the L&BR it could in theory replace two Manning wardles on the heavier trains in time. the other more fanciful suggesting is to rebuild all three of the contractors locos that ran on the L&BR, on the whole they would spend more time away from the L&BR by being roving ambassadors, but they would need to be at Woody Bay or Blackmoor for any future L&BR Gala.

    Because they would not be part of the L&BR main loco fleet, the whole ownership and working would be down to a private group to finance and build them, the major problem being is that there would be other new locos that could be added as well, such as a new Metropolitan Water works 0-4-2T Kerr Stuart which is a personal favorite as well.
     
    30854 likes this.
  7. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    13,696
    Likes Received:
    4,052
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Yes But I think that you would probably want to make it faster than walking! :)
     
    30854 likes this.
  8. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    666
    Likes Received:
    524
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired University professor
    Location:
    Cork, Ireland
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    My favorite for a new-build would be a Cork and Muskerry 4-4-0, for example, No. 7 'Peake'.
    A most impressive loco!
    upload_2017-10-12_10-56-25.png
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  9. 30854

    30854 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    913
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The KS Waterworks locos are a favourite of mine too. Very neat design ..... and there's a good 'pub quiz' question about their origins to be had too!

    Of the contactors locos, I'd lay money on "Excelsior" making it back from oblivion at some point. It's just too quirky to stay scrapped, although not overly suited to heavy passenger trains!

    For the immediate future, it seems likley a 'breathed on' MW design is perfectly adequate, especially if talking Blackmoor Gate to Lynton, but the long term aims are considerably more ambitious. What happens as and when those aims are acheived?

    While not beyond the realms of technical possibility, multiple operation of the MWs seems highly unlikely and hasn't been seriously considered for coal fired locos AFAIK. I'd love to see what today's designers could come up with tailored to L&B requirements. There's that long held view that four coupled is more suitable for the line than six coupled and with the power needed to shift loads too heavy for the MW locos, that surely points to something bendy.

    We've already got Fairlies and in any case, they're synonymous with the Ffesterbahn to the point of being a trademark. NGG16s seem to have been ruled out (would they fit on the L&B?). Ruling out the laughable "Modified Fairlie" (the MetroVick Co-Bo of the steam world), that leaves either Kitson-Meyer or Mallet layout, unless I'm the only one who thinks combination Fairlie/Garratt or Mallet/Garratt suggestions look horrendously overcomplicated, too long and liable to be a nightmare to maintain.

    Perhaps a 2ft gauge 'Leaderette'? (Don't panic, I'm kidding!). That leaves a two by four coupled Mallet or a new Garratt. Surviving metre gauge Portuguese Mallets look a poor bet for rebuilding and I don't think there are too many other candidates, so it's likely to be something new then? A signature design for the revived railway. Both the Englands and Fairlies define the FR, so why not? OK, there's the slight issues of costs and fending off the rampaging hoards of traditionalists, but one thing's for sure.... interesting times lie ahead.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017 at 11:22 AM
    lynbarn likes this.
  10. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    1,556
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hayling Island
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The KS Waterworks machines were a classic example of something built for a Chief Engineer who never travelled first class if there was a Pullman car around. A bespoke design dripping in ornamental brasswork at the height of material shortages in W.W.1, one of Kerr Stuart's standard designs would have done the job perfectly well. Good looking things though.

    I have always thought the L&B Mannings were spoilt by the spread out wheelbase necessitated by drive onto the second axle. When Hunslets were producing machines for Sierra Leone these had to be smaller because of axle loading considerations but it is obvious they "looked over the garden wall" to see what their neighbours had produced. Thankfully this design drove onto the third axle making for something more compact and infinitely better proportioned. Walschaerts valve gear completed the improvement. When a larger boiler was fitted, the appearance was improved as well as the performance which now really fizzed.

    PH
     
    30854 likes this.
  11. 30854

    30854 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    913
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Given the choice of travelling in anything from a royal saloon to an unsprung slate wagon, my father's choice would've come down purely to which one he could smoke his pipe on!

    Durrant comments (in 'Garratt Locomotives of the World') that a longer coupling rod tends to stabilise larger NG locomotives at speed, though I'd imagine that 'speed' is a highly somewhat subjective quantity in NG terms and regardless of gauge, hammer blow increases with the mass of moving parts.

    As an aside, the fastest regular 3'-6" gauge steam schedules I'm aware of were on SAR/ZASM , using Watson's impressive class 16E pacific of 1935, the preserved example of which proved capable of up to 140Kph (a bit shy of 90mph) with a heavy train, though restrictions meant 110Kph (close to 70mph) was top end in regular use. Still pretty impressive on Cape Gauge.
    370px-SAR_Class_16E_858_%284-6-2%29_a.jpg.cf.jpg <==A bit big for the L&B.

    The question for the L&B will be accelerating heavy trains to line speed while being as kind as possible to the PW at running speeds. Although it's an easier route than the WHR, that'll still be quite a challenge.
     
  12. Britfoamer

    Britfoamer Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    760
    Likes Received:
    235
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chemist (semi-retired)
    Location:
    Within 2 miles of the ELR
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    P1040821.JPG
     
    lynbarn, Bluenosejohn and 30854 like this.
  13. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    1,556
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hayling Island
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    As you will see from my picture I drove this engine for some while. A lovely thing to handle and quite the best riding four wheeler I have ever encountered.

    PH
     
    30854 likes this.
  14. 30854

    30854 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    913
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    SNAP! Here's Amerton's Wks No.3905 (not as clear as 3906, but infinitely better than anything I've taken recently!
    4784302917_deb97fcf03_b.jpg.cf.jpg
     
  15. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    611
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Consultant Engineer
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Would dearly love to see one of these:

    B. P, S Class.jpg

    Cheers,

    Alan
     
    andrewshimmin, lynbarn, ghost and 2 others like this.
  16. 30854

    30854 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    913
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    You and me both!
     
  17. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    2,170
    Likes Received:
    1,111
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    That's almost a standard gauge loco, on a par with the SAR machines
     
  18. ross

    ross New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    79
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Titfield
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The Mount Gretna locomotives have the same size driving wheels as Lyn and she goes pretty well
     
  19. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    611
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Consultant Engineer
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Yep, the B.N.C.R. Beyer Class "S" weighs nearly 32 tons; SAR class GMAM weighs 187 tons - almost the same..... in comparison, Ffestiniog Fairlie - 28 tons, a world of difference. Even closer, an NGG16 rolling in at around 60 tons - we deffo need a bigger tape measure.....

    Cheers,

    Alan
     
    30854 and paulhitch like this.
  20. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    2,170
    Likes Received:
    1,111
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Sorry what I mean is that unlike most UK NG Locos its more in keeping with a SG loco in terms of size and concept unlike - say Dolgoch
     

Share This Page