If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Modern traction, stuff like Sprinters, Pacers, Voyagers. In future will people want to preserve them

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by toplight, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    4,539
    Likes Received:
    1,761
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Your nightmares
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Sorry, still disagree. Chip running too fast? Introduce 'wait' states, null loops, whatever. Biggest problem I face is that without a redesign, older TTL (and especially DTL) is getting very hard to source.
     
  2. Tim Light

    Tim Light Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Messages:
    881
    Likes Received:
    412
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'm sure that there will always be a hard core of enthusiasts who want to preserve the trains that they grew up with, so I fully expect a few Sprinters and Pacers to be preserved. However, it's not clear what role they will fulfil on a preserved railway, other than the occasional hard core traction event. First generation DMUs do at least have the appeal of a built-in observation saloon at each end, and can be successfully marketed as a vintage panoramic experience for off-peak services on scenic lines. Class 150s have no such appeal. They have the least passenger-friendly interior of any DMU that I can think of, and no other redeeming features to make them attractive to non-enthusiasts. Yes, they "tell a story", but not a happy one.
     
    Bluenosejohn and Cartman like this.
  3. Cartman

    Cartman Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Messages:
    681
    Likes Received:
    424
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    And the interiors of 1st generation DMUs are quite attractive with a light and airy feel to them, the second generation ones are plasticky and cheap looking
     
    Bluenosejohn likes this.
  4. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    5,223
    Likes Received:
    1,906
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Freelance photo - journalist
    Location:
    Southport
    But as an early BR York DMU build surely they have a story to tell - albeit a sad one of BR expertise whose cost parameters were geared to meeting imposed cost requirements that were dismissed in favour of private builders whose cost parameters were geared more to shareholders rather than customers
     
    Bluenosejohn likes this.
  5. DismalChips

    DismalChips New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    Manchester
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'd support preserving Sprinters/Pacers etc them as part of the British Railway story, and in the case of the Class 150 as a warning to future generations, but I think it'll be many years before they seem like a fun day out with the kids.

    That said, despite many journeys sat on Pacer loathing the rickety old buckets, I feel oddly compelled to make sure I do one final journey on them before they are replaced.
     
  6. Captain Fantastic

    Captain Fantastic Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    108
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Guido Killer Pimp
    Location:
    47603
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Well you could say the 150/156's are more airy inside than a sealed 220 because of the hopper windows and as they are configured internally now they have airline seats but to alter that to groups of 4 would be easy as the seats are easily taken out, now I'm not saying it's something I would love to spend my time in but in years to come people may see them as quaint,compared to what there will be then, and let's not forget many people in pres and more than a few on here see DMU's as awfully modern so they will see a 150 as the anti-christ but they are a lot easier to maintain than older stock so that should count for something, also lets not forget are we a preserved RAILWAY or some sort of glorified theme park, the story of the train did not end in 1968 despite what some might say
     
    Cartman and johnofwessex like this.
  7. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    5,968
    Likes Received:
    3,665
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I agree with you on the role of history, but you may want to think about what those changes would do to the historical integrity of a Voyager.
     
  8. Captain Fantastic

    Captain Fantastic Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    108
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Guido Killer Pimp
    Location:
    47603
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Well I was talking about 150's to be fair not 220's, and the internal seat layouts have been changed loads of times since they were new the ATW have bays of 4 with tables now so it would not be a massive leap
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
    HY_4273 likes this.
  9. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    5,968
    Likes Received:
    3,665
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    My mistake - I misread you. I gather though that the rust on 150s would give many Mk1s a run for their money.
     
  10. Victor

    Victor Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    9,905
    Likes Received:
    2,947
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    DEWSBURY West Yorkshire
    Look North TV gave us a look at the new Northern sets that are coming off the production line in Spain. They'll do nicely thanks, bring em on:). Due to be up and running this year.

    Burn the Pacers.;)
     
    Bluenosejohn and Romsey like this.
  11. Peter Wilde

    Peter Wilde New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    92
    Gender:
    Male
    Having a story to tell ... fine, but that makes these units primarily suitable as an exhibit at the NRM; or any other large museums that try to give a comprehensive history of British railways.

    In the heritage railway sector we can't get away from the need to appeal, strongly, to the general public and give them a pleasant nostalgic experience during their train ride. That has to be paramount. Having done all we can to guarantee that, will there be enough resource (time, money, and siding or undercover space) left over to preserve unattractive units that will be static exhibits most of the time?
     
  12. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    4,539
    Likes Received:
    1,761
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Your nightmares
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Someone on Usenet advocated in their .sig using them to form a reef in the sea....
     
    Bluenosejohn likes this.
  13. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    115
    Location:
    UK
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The problem is that there is a finite amount of 'nice stock' available. The bottom line is that if say the new Somerset and Dorset at Midsomer Norton needs rolling stock and all they can afford is a secondhand Pacer then it makes sense to do so. Why on earth would a line like that with limited resources pick up a fifth hand 1st gen dmu that may need a lot of work when there is a relatively fresh unit with plenty of spares available? Especially if the priority of the railway is extending or restoring a 'flagship' project?

    I think the 'would never run a pacer' crowd ignore the history of the heritage railway movement which has always depended on taking second hand stock straight from BR. I can well remember travelling on the MHR in the 80s and 90s in second hand mk2s. I have a memory of travelling on one preserved railway in a carriage still in NSE livery. Were they lovely? Not really but they got the job done. Railway managements have always taken what they can, when they could. (and this is why we have some gaps).

    I doubt that there is a railway anywhere that wouldn't welcome period rolling stock, locos, all beautifully restored to a high level, but that doesn't exist, so you have to make do with what you've got and what you can get.

    And from the history of the Bluebell we have this:

    http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/bash/hist.html

    Not because they gave the best views, not because they were historically important, not because they gave nostalgic ride but because they were cheap and they were available.

    If a Pacer is preserved it will probably be for the same reasons.
     
    HY_4273 and Cartman like this.
  14. SilentHunter86

    SilentHunter86 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    22
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    My view on Pacers is that there are dedicated bouncy castle companies out there already. 121s are bumpy enough.
     
    johnofwessex and Bluenosejohn like this.

Share This Page