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Heritage Line Loco Power Requirements

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by johnofwessex, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. Hermod

    Hermod New Member

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    The 2500 gallon is for a round trip.The Gilli locomotive uses 120 bar as charging pressure and reduces it to 16 bar.It thereby gets quite some superheat.
     
  2. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    Looking at the last few posts I'm pleased to see that this thread is drawing a truly international debate.

    I'm sorry to say though if this fireless idea was ever implemented at one of our steam railways then they've lost me as a visitor.
     
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  3. olly5764

    olly5764 Well-Known Member

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    A fireless does indeed need a less skilled fireman (still needs a man to help the driver keep a look out) but surely that is off set by the required infrastructure. You are after all, essentially looking at complete new locos, charging plants and a rescue loco at each end just in case
     
  4. 1472

    1472 Active Member

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    Is it possible to separate all this chat about fireless locos from the previous more focussed content which was discussing aspects of heritage rly steam motive power rather closer to the current and likely reality?
     
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  5. jnc

    jnc Member

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    Speak for yourself! I'm the other way around! :)

    Noel
     
  6. Hirn

    Hirn New Member

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    Well shunting stock I had much rather have a fireless locomotive than a diesel on a preserved railway.
    Apart from the looks and that it is more fitting, fireless though it is: it could comfortably provide steam heat.
    Combine solar panels for immersion heaters on carriage shed roofs, which would mitigate peak temperatures inside the shed,
    with a really well insulated reservoir and the pressure would be stored fine for the next day.
    The insulation and - as boiler preheaters - the elements are proven by DMS in Switzerland while a plug in
    connection is proven by Tesla - 75 kwh at approaching 500 volts and fit as many as you care to.
     
  7. olly5764

    olly5764 Well-Known Member

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    Do I detect a wind up?
     
  8. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    You are still ignoring the huge infrastructure costs. Forget it, it will never happen. Fireless locos only made sense in big industrial operations where there was a ready supply of steam from the factory plant.
     
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  9. 1472

    1472 Active Member

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    Don't set us off on a clockwork future Ian my brain is hurting already!

    On a serious note - I am rostered on a turn today where we are due to spread a departed's ashes. Easily enough done on a conventional loco certainly not the same on a mythical fireless!
     
  10. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Member

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    Although, I think there may have been some solution put forward that provides fake exhaust. I'll go back through the thread to check....

    No wait....

    I can't be bothered...

    :Banghead:
     
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  11. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

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    Heritage movement unveils plans for generic new build loco, available in livery and small details to suit the chosen host railway. Tank engine and tender versions supplied to same basic design:

    capture-1.PNG

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017 at 2:30 PM
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  12. Hermod

    Hermod New Member

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    This multi locomotive set up is not needed for short railways.
    It has been an interesting exercise and nobody has been cheated.
    A 0-8-0 steam battery locomotive of 60 -70 tons can do one journey with quite some waggons on NYMR. Have WD 2-10-0s been used on NYMR?

    https://d240vprofozpi.cloudfront.net/locos/Q/q1_2.gif
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017 at 6:07 PM
  13. 30854

    30854 Member

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    Why not take a leaf out of the Parry People Mover's book? A mainline boiler is a decent size for some truly awesome flywheels. If you used a Double Fairlie layout, spinning it up at each end would be simplicity itself.

    th(5).jpg

    I reckon it should be in Stroudley's Improved Engine Green...... I'll just get my coat.:)
     
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  14. jnc

    jnc Member

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    Sadly, I suspect not.

    Noel
     
  15. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    It could be a lot lighter and the waggons would not be needed as it attracts zero passengers.
    We have a working 0-4-0 fireless in the Netherlands, it is shifted around since it is such trouble to fill her up!
    Kind regards
    Jos Koopmans
     
  16. olly5764

    olly5764 Well-Known Member

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    My point precisely.
     
  17. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member Friend

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    To be totally brutal about this if your aim is to just move stock around you might as well use a gronk. Just cover it with a steam lookalikr cladding

    On a more serious note because of the humble gronk the demise of the small tank engine occurred earlier than the big main line engines. The phenomenon that was Barry gave the movement a surplus of large locos. The southern , ex SECR classic 4-4-0, met it's demise around 62 and just the one D class stuffed and mounted survives. Had the preservation movement started earlier and we had more sugar daddies with deep pockets we might have a better balance of motive power types.
     
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  18. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    I make it 129 tender engines vs 84 tanks that made it out. The tank engines include 11 that you definitely couldn't call small (42xx/5205/72xx) and it would depend on your definition of small with 14 STD 4 tanks which are in that total, but yes I'd agree there was certainly less small engines than large at Barry.

    Dai did scrap quite a few panniers of both 57xx and 94xx varieties along with a number prairies amongst other things which would of be useful in today's preservation environment before he changed direction and started on the wagons.
     
  19. Cartman

    Cartman Member

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    The LMS had started with diesel shunters before the war and, as far as I know, built no more steam shunting locos after the early 1930s. Their later ones, which became BR class 11 were pretty much identical to a gronk.
     
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  20. 30854

    30854 Member

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    Maunsell was pretty early into the field (1937) on the Southern too.

    Over the water, the Belfast & County Down beat both English companies... their D1 (later plain No.2) was a Harland & Wolff product, dating from 1933. It lasted in 'big railway' service until 1951, was re-engined in '59 and scrapped 10 years later. The second, (also H&W) was an 1A-A1 No.28 built in 1937 and lasted to become the last B&CDR loco in service, being scrapped in 1973. Like the Corris locos, it retained it's running number throughout it's life.

    The two Irish locos has a pretty good innings, for one off early machines.
     
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