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Dalesman 2017 from York or Chester to Carlisle

Discussion in 'What's Going on' started by GWR4707, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 New Member

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    I believe the steam dreams tour that the 8F was coming south for has been cancelled.
     
  2. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    I don't think this is still the case. SD's Devon Belle was cancelled some months ago and I don't think there's anything else that requires the 8F, is there?
     
  3. 30567

    30567 Active Member Friend

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    Apols for fake news. Should have checked with UK Steam.
     
  4. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Member

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    The Dalesman (Eastern Route) 20 June 2017 – 46115 Scots Guardsman hauling 12+POB

    This is a familiar (and popular) offering from WCRC, originating in York with steam Hellifield to Carlisle and return over the magnificent S&C. I chose to join the train at Skipton, about an hour’s drive. Mrs W had granted me a conditional day pass; this being only my second time out after an attack of the Dreaded Lurgi which confined me to barracks for 10 days.

    The train was a few minutes late leaving Skipton and by the time we had removed top and tail diesels and attached SG we were a shade over 13L before Chris Cubitt, assisted by Bob Bullock got us away. This was a heavy train and Chris intended to get some speed up before the steep bit. By Long Preston we were up to 43 and passed Settle Jn SB at 64. The gradient was now telling and we were down to 50 through Settle, SG was roaring and hurling hot cinders through the open toplight. By Helwith Bridge we were down to 27, this rallied to 34 on the level stretch beyond but fell back to 30 at Horton in Ribblesdale (15L). Beyond Selside speed was down to 25 but improved to 30 by Ribblehead (17L). We were 16L passing Blea Moor SB, then, still hammering away, table covered in cinders we entered the tunnel and some respite for the fireman. Two and a half coaches back it had been magnificent.

    Our late start and relatively slow climb with a heavy train (Settle Jn-Blea Moor 25m 48s, allowance 22m) suggested we may be late into Carlisle. We continued along the top running around 16L but reduced this to 11L into Appleby and 9L away. Despite some good fast running, low to mid 60s, we appeared to be “stuck” running around 9L; even by Armathwaite (less than 10 miles from Carlisle) we were over 8L. However, a very generous allowance for the final section saw us stop in Carlisle platform 3, 6E.

    I had a gentle stroll down to the square for a sandwich and a sit in the sunshine. When I returned to the station the stock was parked up in “A road”. Before too long SG and support appeared and reversed onto the southern end, drew the stock south and then reversed into platform 3.

    Steve Chipperfield, with Martyn Soames on the shovel, got us away RT. Again it was the usual steady start; 2 miles out we were up to 28 as we passed under the M6. I was now 11½ coaches from the front and cinders were still finding their way onto the table. The section to Appleby is generally uphill but is punctuated by some short downhill sections, knowing when to apply power for maximum benefit is down to the skill and experience of the driver. Once again Steve Chipperfield demonstrated his ability to run a heavy train to time. Howe & Co 41 (1L), Low House 47 (1L), Armathwaite 51 (RT), Lazonby & Kirkoswald 59 (1E), Langwathby 52 (1E), Culgaith 55 (2E), Kirkby Thore 51 (3E) culminating in a 5E arrival into Appleby. The climb from Carlisle took 43m 39s with a max of 63 around Little Salkeld. With an extra coach, this was 6s faster than the CME of 13 May.

    We left Appleby 1E and took advantage of the short downhill to cross Ormside viaduct at 53. Here the 1/100r starts and we were down to 38 at Helm tunnel, then the gradient eases and we passed Crosby Garrett at 43 and were up to 46 across Smardale viaduct. The gradient reverts to 1/100r and SG was working hard as we passed through Kirkby Stephen at 33 albeit still 1E. We plunged into Birkett tunnel at 31 and as the gradient eases to 1/330r around Mallerstang we recovered to 38. Now for the slog up the final 3 miles of 1/100r, speed dropped below 30 as we approached Ais Gill and the B6259 overbridge and just beyond fell further to a minimum of 28. 11½ coaches back I passed the summit board at 35 (RT). Appleby to Ais Gill summit board took 30m 30s.

    There was some good brisk running along the top and down the other side. From being 2E at Blea Moor SB we passed Settle Jn SB at 61 (5E). There was a slight check before entering Hellifield loop where we stopped 4E. SG was quickly detached and diesels added fore and aft. SG set off for Carnforth and about the same time we left for Skipton 10E. Back home for 8.30pm.

    An excellent trip; S&C both ways, cracking loco, adequate but not overlong break in Carlisle, no excessively long water or operational stops, sensible times, good weather, professionally operated and exceptional value for money. Thanks to all concerned.
     
  5. 30567

    30567 Active Member Friend

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    There's the advantage of boarding at Skipton. Ah the joys of Kirkstall Goods Loops and Whitehall Jn! Thanks David for the review, I was hoping you or another data person would be on the train-- and with that added dash of poetry too!
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  6. Dobbs0054

    Dobbs0054 Active Member

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    We are going to miss Scots Guardsman. After a rocky start this has proven to be a brilliant loco. Fingers crossed the time out of service will be short.
     
  7. Steve Sienkiewicz

    Steve Sienkiewicz New Member

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    48151 passing Angrholm on Monday evening, about 30 min's down...........

    48151 Angrholm.jpg
     
    DWH 2848, John Petley, D1059 and 8 others like this.
  8. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Part of the furniture

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    Lovely stuff as always, sounds like there are not any great concerns regarding fire risk in the NW at the moment.
     
  9. DOH46229

    DOH46229 New Member

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  10. 61994

    61994 New Member

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    Any early indications as to what's on the steam section tomorrow?
     
  11. sgthompson

    sgthompson Well-Known Member

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  12. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Member

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    Thanks for the kind remarks about my report of last week's Dalesman. I tried to book a single standard class ticket on the Western Dalesman shortly after it was decided to re-route the Chester service via the Little North Western - fully booked! There was very limited availability (single standard ticket) on the Eastern Dalesman; I settled for Monday 7 Aug (SG/BIL/48151?). Raining steadily so no fire risk today. Nothing booked now until mid July, so off on holiday shortly.
     
  13. 30567

    30567 Active Member Friend

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    Actually, WCR have demonstrated this year that their offer is a great success in the marketplace and if BIL and the 8F are available, I wonder if further dates might yet be added in September.
     
  14. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Active Member

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    I wonder what has changed from 2015, as there appeared to be quite a few runs with poor patronage and only 8 coaches in the consist, including the POB, up to the start of the school holidays. The re-opening of the line is a factor perhaps. Plus the operating suspension is becoming a distant memory. But maybe the marketing approach has altered. It's good news, as if it proves to grow in popularity, the S&C has the potential to be a Jacobite of England, with a run every day of the working week.
     
  15. 30567

    30567 Active Member Friend

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    I think another factor besides Eden Brows is that the price differentials have widened in the last two years. WCR £59 ; RTC £99/109 ; UKRT £115 standard class this year. That opens a market for WCR which is different from the others -- the day out on the S and C market which includes a ride behind steam even if its 140 miles and no guarantees about which loco it will be.

    Thinking of the times the stock needs to leave Carnforth to get to York and Chester I don't really see this expanding to a daily trip unless they return to basing locos and coaching stock at the NRM and possibly reverting to the old model of the SSE some days. To do that they would need one Yorkshire train and one Lancashire train. That's quite a big step up. I think extending the season might be feasible though, given the demographic they are catering for--- that's assuming the numbers added up for them this year.
     
  16. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Part of the furniture

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    Methinks you have overlooked a recent development that began in the 2016 season whereby the Dalesman is operated in 2 stages with heritage diesel traction powering the first stage and steam traction on tether. Given the market for each traction type WCRC has been allowing the diesel fans to travel part-fare for short lengths of the journey - especially on those parts where the train has yet to be filled with the main body of those seeking steam haulage. This willingness to serve 2 markets with 1 train may help explain why WCRC can keep fares low yet still make a profit despite the need for ECS moves and hints at a possible way forward for future tour programmes.

    Could this see that tours from London with heritage traction allow part-route haulage (e.g. Euston to Rugby one-way) or part fares for steam-haulage sections only ?
     
  17. noelist

    noelist Active Member

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    1st video from today of 48151 over batty moss viaduct, not my video.

     
  18. 30567

    30567 Active Member Friend

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    Fred-- this is definitely true of the Scarborough Spa Express where there is the intermediate destination of York and class 37s and 40145 are on the roster. For the Dalesman I think it's marginal ; no intermediate destination and an unvarying diet of class 47s.
     
  19. wcmlbls1846

    wcmlbls1846 Active Member

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    37516 / 669 worked it today, with the 8F tender first on the rear from Carnforth. AN

    https://andrewstransport.smugmug.com/Northwesttrains/North-West-trains-2017/i-qvgrVWn
     
  20. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Active Member

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    Everything "in-house" ie no third party tour company like RTC to go through must be a factor on the price I would have thought.
     
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