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Dalesman 2017 from York or Chester to Carlisle

Discussion in 'What's Going on' started by GWR4707, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Part of the furniture

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  2. 60017

    60017 Part of the furniture Friend

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  3. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I'll be there, well at least the Chester starts.
     
  4. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Part of the furniture

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    I hadn't even looked at that, they are very cheap in standard at least.

    For the Chester ones what happens with the steam as it suggests that this comes on and off at Carnforth? Does it retrace its steps south ala the Fellsman or perhaps is dragged to Hellifield for the run north and south over the S&C?
     
  5. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    As far as I'm aware, the Chester one will be steam, Carnforth, Shap, Carlisle, S&C, Hellifield.
     
  6. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Part of the furniture

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    So getting shap and s&c for £50. Not half bad, suppose operationally they can leave the steam on the back from Hellifield to Carnforth and save a path too.
     
  7. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    More likely change locos and continue via Clitheroe.
     
  8. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Part of the furniture

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    Amazed people are not raving about the price for these trains, in the case of the Chester - Carlisle ones you get both Shap and the S&C for £49, that less than £20 more than the Tornado out and pootle back that people are getting so excited about elsewhere!

    Its a funny old world.
     
  9. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Exceptional value considering that the price would probably be double through SD or RTC, using the same TOC, stock and locos.
     
  10. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

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    I'd read the Tuesday as S&C both ways, with steam on/off at Hellifield. Hence to stop at Leyland vice Preston.
     
  11. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Part of the furniture

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    Taken from the website (my emphasis added)
    To Carlisle from Chester returning via the Settle to Carlisle line (steam from Carnforth)

    The Leyland stop is odd, but actually makes sense if the earlier suggestion from RalphW is correct and they are coming back down via Clitheroe and thus cannot do a drop off back at Preston so travellers from the Preston area get a common join and disembark point?
     
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  12. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Only on the ones from York is the steam on and off at Hellifield.
     
  13. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    All depends how you look at it, of course. The Tornado trips run out at £0.32 ppm based on a return fare of £36 and an out-and-back itinerary of 112 miles. And coincidentally, this is almost identical to the cost per mile of the steam leg of the York-based outings and slightly less than the £0.35 per steam mile for the Chester-based outings. And this, for me, is the litmus test for the hard-core value of any day trip with a steam component, whether 100% or less. This tells me how much "bang-for-buck" I'm getting, because the purpose of my day is to enjoy steam haulage, and not just to "have a day out on the train".

    Sorry if this is a bit dry and forensic. I suppose its why I don't "rave" about anything. Need to get out more!!!;)

    But this is not to decry what really is a superb offer from WCR. Rather than describe their proposition as "cheap", "affordable" says much more about its appeal to WCR's potential customer base and is much less demeaning to the provider, the product, and the customer. And good on them for doing this; I hope these trips are a massive success, as they were in years prior to 2016. Priced at a rate of £0.17-£0.18 ppm overall for the whole day's itinerary, I'm sure they will be.

    And IMHO better by far as a customer proposition than the marathon day trips with a wafer-thin steam content (Spirit of the Lakes, was it?) that WCR ran last year.
     
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  14. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Part of the furniture

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    That's rather assuming that tender first reduced speed steam is of a same value than full speed steam?
     
  15. 60017

    60017 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Repeat itineraries at an affordable price is the way to go IMHO. The model can be repeated elsewhere in the country. According to the latest Railway Herald, LSL have applied to the ORR for a train operators license. It all bodes well for the future :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
  16. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Could not agree more wholeheartedly in all respects.
     
  17. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    Hmmm. Interesting point. My contention (obviously open to challenge, but stated with conviction) would be that......

    1. With a ruling line-speed of 60 mph all the way from Appleby through Hellifield to the outskirts of Skipton, the difference between 45mph and 60mph vmax operation would not in practise manifest itself in such a significant variation in overall running times. Also worth bearing in mind also that at two locations - Ribblehead and Dent, there are 30 mph permanent speed restrictions. So there is going to be a lot of interest from a train timer's perspective in how performance is managed to reflect PSR's and station stops, whether running tender-first or boiler-first.

    2. The line-speed factor is borne out by comparison of typical CME schedules pre-2016, with RTT's published schedule for Tornado's 2Z23 next week; overall times from Appleby to Hellifield were 66 minutes start to stop for the southbound CME, now compared with 78 minutes planned for Tornado with two intermediate stops, so not really a lot of difference anticipated in net running times.

    3. The main event on the southbound leg is surely the ascent of Ais Gill where it is sheer "grunt" rather than vmax. capability that provides the real focus of performance interest. Again, its worth noting that Tornado 's scheduled allowance from Kirby Stephen restart to Garsdale (pass) is only 14 minutes, and this compares closely with 13 minutes pass-to-pass for the southbound CME.

    4. I don't recall, and certainly don't believe, that the value/ enjoyment of southbound runs on the Dalesman or Fellsman was ever diminished by the rostering of 8F or K1 motive power running boiler-first but limited to 50 mph.

    I just can't wait to see how all this is borne out by the report-backs that we get in this forum on Tornado's performance next week, but that's for a different thread.
     
  18. 30567

    30567 Active Member Friend

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    I agree the Dalesman trips are great value for a day out. But I'm not sure about the price comparison above. An off-peak day return from Leeds to Appleby for the Tornado trip is £23 or £16 with Railcard. That's what I'd be comparing with £53 (incl cc fee) for the Dalesman to Carlisle. Both great value.



     
  19. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

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    So we're going up Shap midweek?? That will be interesting, certainly be booking at least one of these. Guessing locos be one of 46115/45669/45690?
     
  20. 30567

    30567 Active Member Friend

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    How is 35018 progressing?
     

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