If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

D9016 / 55016 Gordon

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by Victor, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,723
    Likes Received:
    416
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chester le Street County Durham
    Almost typically for me, its the last day of our Florida Keys holiday, come back on the day after..
     
  2. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,181
    Likes Received:
    464
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Font of all knowledge (useful, or
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Q about Deltics . They always look HUGE to me, how gauge friendly are they ?
     
  3. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    4,539
    Likes Received:
    1,761
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Your nightmares
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Well, they're RA5 which makes them pretty much a 'go anywhere' loco, rather like the 37. The blue livery looks lovely when clean but only emphasises the bulk of the things - the original green livery (preferably without any yellow panels) conceals their size well. As for their size restricting where they go, I can't help but maybe guycarr360 can help?
     
  4. Victor

    Victor Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    9,905
    Likes Received:
    2,947
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    DEWSBURY West Yorkshire
    There are not many places (if any) where they can't go, they're even welcome on the Standedge route.

    Dreaming I know but, apart from the cost involved, would it be possible to build new engines, drawings must still exist. They did the East Coast route proud for many years.
     
    Springs Branch likes this.
  5. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,723
    Likes Received:
    416
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chester le Street County Durham
    They are very light on their feet, as the weight of them is lower than comparable power, increasing RA.

    Also have as much tractive effort on 1 engine up to 40mph, as with 2, in a lot of respects, baring reliability, way ahead of their time.
     
  6. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,723
    Likes Received:
    416
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chester le Street County Durham
    Hi @Victor

    Was discussed at infinitum on the FB page, the problem is liners, getting them re-chromed, which costs an absolute fortune, together with no supply of pistons being available.

    There are enough triangles (blocks), phasing cases, fuel system etc.., its the liners that are the problem, the last company to refurb them closed recently in Newcastle, with the end of RN contracts.

    Ex marine units, have proved unsuitable for rail operation, vibration being the issue.

    Generators etc.., can always be re-wound, traction motors are ex 37 units, same for bogies etc....

    It needs somebody to do a rebuild of a unit soon, the only unit done in preservation, is in 55016, did not have its liners refurbished, and is reported to have a liner leak.

    Was done at Paxman's under contract, would expect the tooling and knowledge is disappearing slowly, to ever undertake a full rebuild.
     
  7. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    25,944
    Likes Received:
    8,893
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Blind assumption here but one would think that JH has a plan other than just "fingers crossed they don't break any time soon."
     
  8. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,723
    Likes Received:
    416
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chester le Street County Durham
    If his rebuilding of the steam loco's under his custody is concerned, you would expect so, and an A1 job would be the norm.

    I think 2 working units of the 4 in the loco's, with another broken down to components at martin's works for rebuild was the last info, together with some marine units etc.. Also £25k of main bearings and piston rings were part of the deal.
     
  9. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Can you explain the reasons for that please?
     
  10. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,723
    Likes Received:
    416
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chester le Street County Durham
    Was explained by Martin Walker, after the unit they fitted failed, it was not a direct swap, needed adapter plates etc... to marry up with Generator etc...

    After a short period, liners leaked again, being the reason given.
     
  11. Victor

    Victor Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    9,905
    Likes Received:
    2,947
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    DEWSBURY West Yorkshire
    Wouldn't it be grand if there were 2 or 3 refurbed units 'on the shelf' somewhere.
    I can't help speculating that there's going to be a bit of close co operation between the teams at Barrow Hill and Crewe. I hope so.
     
  12. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Thanks. So the adapter plates caused a different vibration resonance that led to premature liner failure?
     
  13. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,723
    Likes Received:
    416
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chester le Street County Durham
    Its a hard one to say, don't know for certain, it may have something to do with the age of the engines used, they were not new at the time of installation.

    Came from a scrapped PT boat in USA if I remember correctly.
     
  14. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    593
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think a lot is down to the age of the rubber seals on the liners, which were I understand problematical in service.

    Sawdust.
     
  15. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,208
    Likes Received:
    831
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Researcher/Editor
    Location:
    Between LBSCR 221 and LBSCR 227
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    D9000 worked through to Ramsgate regularly on summer Saturdays in 2000. There was also a tour in March 1978 hauled by 55007 Pinza which visited Dover, out via Chatham, back via Tonbridge. Kent is one of the most restricted parts of the country when it comes to gauging. On the steam front, almost anything above class 5 apart from Bulleids, Brits, Blue Peter and Tornado is prohibited. If a Deltic can work the full length of the London, Chatham & Dover & South Eastern lines without any issues, I wouldn't think there are many places it can't run.

    I agree that they look huge, however. I went over to the Bluebell for the Deltic gala last October and took a picture of D9002. As it came nearer, it quite took me aback just how massive it seemed as I watched it approach through the viewfinder - and no, I wasn't anywhere too close - i.e., where I shouldn't have been!
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  16. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    499
    Location:
    Durham
    I think that, although the Deltics do indeed look huge, they don't swing about as much as many steam locomotives, so the kinematic envelope is still quite small.
     
  17. goldfish

    goldfish Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,961
    Likes Received:
    3,219
    Is that the one that visited Sittingbourne? That was a good day!

    Simon
     
  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    13,137
    Likes Received:
    14,115
    Location:
    21C102
    I think the huge appearance is something of an optical illusion: at least if Wikipedia is to be believed, a Deltic has the same height and width - to within fractions of an inch - as a class 37, and the bogie is in the same position relative to the buffers (The Deltic is somewhat longer).

    I think they look huge partly because the bonnet is quite high, and they have a correspondingly low windscreen - taken together, it gives them something of a hulking appearance. That is accentuated in profile - at least in the green ones - by the white window surrounds which emphasise that the side windows are much lower than the bonnet. I suspect a scale drawing of a Deltic and a class 37 together would show the effect quite well.

    Tom
     
    DismalChips likes this.
  19. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    4,539
    Likes Received:
    1,761
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Your nightmares
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It's at times like this you need a copy of British Rail Main-Line Diesels by S.W. Stevens-Stratten and R.S. Carter to hand... :)

    ( @240P15 you may find that a book worth looking for to get an idea of relative sizes of British diesels of the era; the 1st edition of this book dates from 1963 - then it covered Classes 15, 17, 20, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 33, 35, 37, 40, Warship A1A-A1A, Warship B-B, 44, 45, 46, 47, 50, 52, 55, D8400-9, Falcon, Lion, Kestrel, DP2, 73 and 74. Later version from the mid-1970s expanded upon this.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  20. DisusedBranch

    DisusedBranch Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    747
    Location:
    Here be haggis
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    My first experience of a Deltic, at the Edenbridge photo stop, as a youngster. And a moment that changed my life. For the next three and a bit years I chased the things everywhere.
     
    goldfish likes this.

Share This Page