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Cumbrian Mountain Express 20/05/17

Discussion in 'What's Going on' started by 1020 Shireman, May 12, 2017.

  1. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 New Member

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    Whilst I can understand 1020 Shireman wanting a particular loco, we are in 2017 where any trip that is hauled by steam, without a diesel assistance is a major bonus.
    To be on this forum he must be an enthusiast who must understand the way the market operates with late loco changes, FTR failures, NR sudden out of gauge edicts etc. I feel it is somewhat disingenuous to be attacking the tour operator like this for what was a tour that was on time or early, lacking any diesel assistance, where both ends of the train were near the loco at some time or another, and covered three good climbs on some of the most iconic lines in the UK.
    I was a steward on Saturday, and yes I had hoped for the Duchess for a change, which was why I volunteered for this trip, but I did not expect it. Hell for all I knew British India Line could have backed on the front at Carnforth (assuming it had test runs the two previous days)
    My "volunteer trip" cost me two nights hotel in London, 290 miles in the car about £35 in petrol plus food about £140 in total. Yes I am very happy to do it but I do fully appreciate that I am unlikely to get the loco first advertised or even the one I wanted. I also accept that the days are exceptionally long and that without any delays I was up for 17 hours, a lot of which was on my feet and that I will feel exhausted for a couple of days afterwards.
    RTC are also likely to cancel a trip if steam is unavailable (given notice) where it appears Steam Dreams do not care if steam is even present based on the number of tours they run that are advised as diesel only a few days out.
     
  2. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Agreed bit @1020shireman is entitled to go back to RTC for an explanation if he wishes simply due to having had a personal assurance in the first place. Whether he shares any response is a matter for him.
    There are bones and dogs on all sides by the way.
     
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  3. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    The best way forward woukd be simply avoid specifically advertising which loco or pool is in the frame. As most have pointed out it amounts to little more than an expression of optimism in many cases so just advertise a steam hauled train over a given route?
     
  4. gricerdon

    gricerdon Active Member

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    Which is why I haven't been on a SD trip for years now. Personally I have always found RTC ok to deal with
     
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  5. sgthompson

    sgthompson Well-Known Member

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    Been on many a Fellsman hoping to get 46115 but not had the pleasure yet but didn't moan as it was pot luck with said Pool . You take your chance as life's a lottery at times . I can see the point though when you think it might be said loco you booked the day out for .
     
  6. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Totally agree Steve. Think the only significant point with this one is that RTC appear to have given a verbal assurance that did not materialise yet the owners of the loco in question have said there was no problem from their side. I have sympathy for folk shelling out on that basis. Plus the sub was not even in the pool.
    Pot luck indeed. I've always been happy to get the 8F on Fellsman trips as I would rather ride behind it than phot it.
     
  7. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    Ok. You've made your point (yet again). The railtour industry will continue to make changes to steam haulage, having made best efforts to provide the originally publicised loco. People will continue to book on these trains, although some (a few?) may decide not to.

    Maybe in future, to avoid any possible last-minute changes, they'll just advertise "Steam train to somewhere (hopefully) ". I'm sure that will bring passengers flocking in - not.
     
  8. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

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    Few if any of us would object to that, but this case is different. At least one booking was made on the basis, not of what was "originally publicised" as to which loco would be used, but of a specific statement over the phone not long before the trip; there has been no explanation for the change; and the PRCLT have specifically stated that there is no problem with their loco. Thus this appears to be well short of "best efforts".
     
  9. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Please keep up dear, suggested this upthread
    You also inadvertently, one assumes, highlight the point of traction being a key consideration for purchasers. At odds with your earlier statement that steam and route is all that matters?
     
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  10. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    In whos interests are the "best efforts" directed though? This market suffers from adverse selection so the customer is entirely reliant on the seller acting in good faith.
     
  11. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    My point is that generic adverts for railtours are very *unlikely* to sell seats.

    Those who want a specific loco (rather than a steam-hauled train in general) are probably in the minority, based on comments from other passengers. Other criteria apply, such as date, route, pick-up locations etc.

    Going back to the OP, I'm not aware that they have actually contacted the operator to complain or asked why the loco change was made. Moaning on a forum isn't going to help. Remember the thread about the NRM/563 when it took one of the non-moaners to actually get an explanation from the people involved?
     
  12. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Active Member Friend

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    Operational decisions a friend who asked RTC told me. Only the TOC can make them can't they?
     
  13. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Active Member Friend

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    Excuse me whoever you are. I've supported mainline steam in the UK since 1984, generally buying 2 tickets. The 13th May was our 847th tour. I spend on average £5000+ a year on steam hauled trains, plus the on costs of getting to and from them. I actually know the promoters and have had many discussions with them personally about the trials and tribulations of running steam hauled tours on the mainline over the years. I was hardly attacking RTC as I am fully aware that they have a TOC and Stock arrangement with RTC which, when push comes to shove, leaves the ultimate choice of engine to the TOC. This is a free speech forum and unlike you I do care which engine I pay my money to travel behind. I'm not the kind of man who will ask for my money back just because the 'wrong' engine turns up but as people who contribute and read this site will know I'm one of the dying breed of timers who loves good performances on the banks and on the level, hence the reports and times I contribute. We always enjoy Shap and the S&C and will always support CMEs but it's fact that Scots Guardsman's performances have dropped of late and the Duchess would have been and is by far the better choice of engine to cope with the heavy 12 coach train. So why change it from the Duchess to the Scot? We're looking forward to 35018 taking the banks on and hope to see it in July on the next CMEs which we're also booked on.
     
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  14. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    It strikes me that anyone holding a different opinion to yours gets labelled a moaner and their right to express that opinion questioned.
    As far as I can see there has been an expression of disatisfaction made to the tour operator and shared on the forum in case there are folk with a common experience. The principle of being told and sold one thing but provided with another is wrong so a response should be given. The shared reply now seems to imply an arbitrary TOC decision. Not a very fair basis to sell tours.
     
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  15. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    I really can't wait until Saturday as we might then get some posts that are actually about the trip on the day. :rolleyes:
     
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  16. Dobbs0054

    Dobbs0054 Member

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    Silly...;)
     
  17. gricerdon

    gricerdon Active Member

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    I ought to be on it really but too much to do at home. Must try to get another run with 46115 before it comes off for overhaul.
     
  18. Mick45305

    Mick45305 New Member

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    I'm looking forward to raking in some more miles with 46115, whilst we've still got the chance.
     
  19. banana patch

    banana patch New Member

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    Just arrived Carlisle SG sounded good to me no complaints at all!!!
     
  20. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Well-Known Member

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    Any draincock ?
     

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