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Class 21 D6122

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by Reading General, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    How did D6122 end up at Hither Green as a re-railing exercise prior to despatch to Woodham's Barry?
     
  2. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest

  3. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Resident of Nat Pres Account Suspended

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    I thought this was debunked as a myth.

    I recall reading there was a D61xx that was mothballed for some years, during the classes rebuilds, the cab were removed whilst in works. To speed up the process, the cabs from the mothballed exampled were re-installed onto the D61xx being overhauled, and the recently removed one hence became the spare for the next and so on...
     
  4. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    but how did it get to be in Hither Green (and later Woodhams)
     
  5. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Does seem strange, why would somthing be towed all the way from the far north to London?
     
  6. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest

    If you read carefully what is so far included on the RCTS website no evidence what so ever has emerged to support the cab swap theory. It is thus probable that this is an assumption that has become fact through repetition rather than being based on any documental or photographic evidence. A straight identity swap rather than cab swap appears the most likely from evidence so far unearthed.
     
  7. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Resident of Nat Pres Account Suspended

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    I wouldnt say that... i'd say neither theory is proven.

    All thats known for fact is D6121 and D6122 both appeared differently sometime around 1965 for reasons unknown.

    There are ambiguities in the ID swap theory... there are pictures of D6122 in Woodhams with 1 vent for instance, and pictures of D6122 without any builders plates before arrival at Barry.. as well as pictures of D6122 with it's numbers painted out.. before the pictures of D6121 showed through.

    D6121 ended it's days with a full yellow end and without vents, and (and there is one telling image of D6121 with weld lines on parts of the cab and evidence of a renumber, at Inverurie works in 1965.. without vents)...


    this statement doesn't say ID swap.. in fact it refers to canabalism... if the writer thought there was a repaint.. why use the word canabalism ?

    Lack of fact on one story doest not imply fact on another story.

    Spare cabs will have had to have been made... more than one was repaired following an accident.. (I know Ive seen locos running around in service whilst a cab with the same number has been sat in a works... indeed I have a BR Blue flame cut of a loco which is still running in service !).

    The flaw with the story is the suggestion the uprating of the MAN engine of D6122 was a failure and so it swapped ID's with D6121, so that the real D6121 went on to become a class 29... why.. well D6122 (the now D6121) went on to outlive D6122 (formerly D6121) in service for nearly 4 years..., without conversion, not only that but 6146 and 6152 were scrapped to provide spares for it.. (Spares.. hang on.. it's supposed to be a masquerading non-standard 6122 and a wreck ???).. surely the logical thing would be to quietly let it be withdrawn and slip out of sight (like 4965/4983).. not hang around to the very end ?

    http://www.rcts.org.uk/features/diesels/content.htm?id=diesels/D6146

    it does seem odd stuff happened with this class whilst in and out of works, having been in situations of "mass fail" events myself, the logical thing to do in those situations is rob peter to pay paul and restore service, grab bits from wherever, then return to status quo once stability is restored.. this class has all the credentials for that.

    Why D6122 got selected to go to Hither Green might be an interesting story...
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
  8. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    i don't think any of the conspriacy theories have anything to do with it ending up at Woodham's via Hither Green.
     
  9. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest

    Can details be given of where these pictures can be viewed? Those who asked me to air the D6121/D6122 dilemma have a much greater knowledge of detail differences than I. They will be very interested in these pictures if as you say they go counter to the identity swap theory.

    Again, were can this image be viewed? This could be a very vital clue as it is a picture taken at a very critical time. We also have some other information, not yet included which might tie in with this.

    But were they for these locomotives? A lot of the cab swapping in the 1970s and later used cabs off withdrawn locomotives to create a pool?

    I would like to emphasize that the dilemmas shown in http://www.rcts.org.uk/features/diesels/ for solving are just that. We do not say what we have is correct, far from it, we are airing what researchers have highlighted that conflicts with what has been published previously. It is quite clear that ADB968008 has some useful contributions to make but we do need to know sources. The biggest problem we are up against, this being the same for the HSBT (What really happened to steam project) is a resistance by many not to accept that in the light of fresh analysis what has been published previously does not stand up to scrutiny.

    I am also aware that the issue of the identity swap or otherwise is off topic to the OP but thought it worth alerting those who were not aware as to other issues surrounding the locomotive.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2015
  10. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    with respect, the D6121/22 story is for a different thread .... what I asked was how did D6122 end up at Hither Green
     
  11. m&gn50

    m&gn50 New Member

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    The answer is, it was Commonwealth bogies, and withdrawn so practice of the rerailing equipment could be gained without damaging similar -but unpowered- bogied SR EMU stock VEPs or BEPs I think
     
  12. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    do you actually know that to be true ? Can you produce any evidence that a withdrawn loco was moved all the way from Scotland for an exercise?
     
  13. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Sounds logical.
     
  14. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest

    Have a look at http://www.rcts.org.uk/features/diesels/loco.htm?id=diesels/D6121 were we are appealing for observations of D6121 & D6122 from 1964 onwards. So far we have two sighting submissions supporting the move having taken place.
     
  15. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    very good....looks as if it was a deleiberate move then for the purposes of the exercise. Sale to Woodhams is the obvious follow up as he bought a lot of SR locos...he probably thought it had a copper firebox :)
     
  16. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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  17. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

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    According to magazine I read some time ago. D6122 was stored at Inverurie works and a request from the Southren region for a scrap loco to act has a dummy for rerailing exercises at Hither Green depot. The loco moved south and after being used for rerailing stayed at the depot until July 1968 and then moved to Barry scrap yard.

    D6122 and D6121 were both in Inverurie works together and cabs were interchanged and both locos were released from the works. After D6122 had been at barry for sometime the paint had worn away to show the original loco number D6121. The cabs would never corroed because they are made of aluminium alloy.
     
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  18. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    Great information, well done
     
  19. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

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    Cheers
    Just to add a bit more info if anyone is interested.

    D6121
    Service start date August 1959
    Refurb date September 1966
    Withdrawn date October 1971
    Broken up date September 1972

    D6122
    Services tart date August 1959
    Withdrawn date December 1967
    Broken up date June 1980


    D6319 was the last to be withdrawn from service and was to be preserved but for some reason it all went wrong at Swindon. Who cut the loco up in error.
     
  20. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Resident of Nat Pres Account Suspended

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    As a result D821 was saved instead.
     

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