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Building replica rolling stock?

Discussion in 'Heritage rolling Stock' started by lynbarn, Jun 10, 2013.

  1. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Can plywood be treated to improve its longevity? Presume that much depends on the quality of the product in the first place?
     
  2. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    Or, to put it another way, "you can't get the wood you know..." :)

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
     
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  3. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    Trying to get my head around suitable types of wood has thrown up several species I'd never heard of. Boat building seems to present the nearest comparable application.... luxury (i.e. very expensive) end, of course! In most cases, costs are stratospheric and none of the three most used alternatives I've read up on look easy to work. Must be why they call 'em "hard wood"! If anyone's interested, this is the most comprehensible website I've found so far:
    http://www.eastteak.com/
    Teak and it's likely substitutes lurk in "Exotic Lumber" from the drop down menu.

    The only preservation method I'm aware of not involving some pretty nasty chemicals is pressurised acetic acid solution treatment (that's basically white vinegar to you and me!) and can't AFAIK easily be applied to ply or other bonded timber sheets. I'd be very happy to be corrected on this.

    Just think of how much withdrawn teak bodied stock just went up in flames over the years following the (very understandable) BR ban on such stock! I suppose the best that C&W restorers can hope for most of the time is a sympathetic demolition contractor giving a heads-up about a former school/barracks/old folks home etc. containing a load of teak furniture everyone thought too scruffy to be worth extracting for sale.
     
  4. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    I think building a teak coach from recycled "teak" (which usually isn't!) furniture would be a challenge akin to building Westminster Abbey from matchsticks! Laboratory bench tops can sometimes be found but are usually built up from 1" thick planks and so are quite difficult to deep-saw into panels and are stuck together with earlier generations of glue which may not last exposure to weather well. That's if you can get the stuff - H & S awareness has made institutions wary of permitting bench tops to be recycled because of the chemicals etc. they may have become impregnated with and which may be released when machined.

    Actually, there are other possibilities. The first is that plantation-grown teak is widely available in sizes suitable for frame repairs, but it is harvested before the trees get big enough to provide the teak panels found on railway carriages. Reclaimed timber baulks can also sometimes be found from old buildings being demolished in the far east but again these are not big enough for panels. So the real problem lies in finding teak panels, but with improvements in glue technology it is becoming viable both to repair split panels and to build up new ones from narrower sections.
     
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  5. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Time to look at some sort of 'composite' solution?
     
  6. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for a comprehensive explaination.
    Maybe some mileage in effectively veneering suitable timber planks unsing availabe thinner section recycled teak? (The stuff used by most of the furniture industry these days being a couple of cigarette papers thick). If so, scope for a specialised cottage industry methinks.
     
  7. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    Having had ten sheets of plywood veneered with 1.5mm teak veneers plus balance on reverse, for corridor and vestibule paneling on a job, I can tell you that the cost was eye watering. It's only really teak where the is this issue. It would still be possible to get panels for painted vehicles out of lesser timbers.

    Sawdust.
     
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  8. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Given just a modicum of protection, teak is astonishingly weather resistant. Despite its poverty, the London Chatham & Dover Railway used the best Burma teak in its passenger stock. When after fifty years service and much modification, one of these vehicles was sold in 1938 for use as a summerhouse its salvation was the acquisition of a thatched roof! When,after several more decades, it was taken back into railway service, even the interior seating was largely intact. I doubt if any metal bodied vehicle could demonstrate such durability.

    PH
     
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  9. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    I like the notion of a carriage with a thatched roof. Not even Rowland Emett went that far!
     
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  10. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    Indeed, teak has I believe unique properties and I'm yet to be convinced any other timber comes close to these.

    Any timber merchants who try to tell you otherwise are equivalent to snake oil salesmen.

    Sawdust.
     
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  11. olly5764

    olly5764 Well-Known Member

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    I'm surprised at the negative comments about new under frames. The main bulk of a frame us normally made up of fairly standard channel, "L" and "T" sections, whilst in theory W irons could be fabricated and so less wasteful of steel. Yes, axle box castings may be pricey but that cost would come down per casting so producing more saves money per box. I'm sure if someone wanted to build a replica of a long lost type of coach or wagon, it's hardly beyond the whit of man, and given the longevity of the vehicles we have already, some of which are over a century old, it is unlikely to be a poor investment.
     
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  12. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    Good point, as even the humble PMV/GUV will become an endangered species some day in the not too distant future.
     
  13. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    But why, when there is still a huge amount of historically important rolling stock unrestored or at risk from exposure to the elements?

    Sawdust.
     
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  14. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    If I'm reading the runes correctly, it's the grounded bodies olly5764 is referring to. I hope so.... coz that's how I answered his post!
     
  15. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Active Member

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    New build underframes for existing grounded bodies will happen given time, we cannot use all of the CCT and PMVs as donor vehicles.
     
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  16. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

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    Six-wheeled would be interesting - I can think of grounded bodies which were originally six-wheelers but are, or are planned to be, running on four-wheeled underframes. Nothing wrong technically, but the appearance would be better on a six wheeler.

    Tom
     
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  17. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    Apologies, my mistake, new underframes for these carriages are definitely achievable now.

    Sawdust.
    (I must not read and write posts as I'm walking along the street!)
     
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  18. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    There you go @gwalkeriow .... Let's call it two votes for recreating the ex-Golden Valley six wheelers .... lovely ironwork!

    Probably one for after the IWR Oldbury's and Met 8-wheelers on that never ending "to do" list. :)
     
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  19. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Active Member

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    And the LCDR bogie coaches plus a LCDR 4 wheeler and the FYNR 4 wheeler :)
     
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  20. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    If it ever got added to the shopping list, would "Midget" come under the Loco Dept. or C&W?
     

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