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Brighton Belle update

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by 73129, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson New Member

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    The indifferent quality of the track was due in a large part to the heavy unsprung weights carried by the early designs of motor bogies. this in effect became its own progenitor. "Roaring rail" was one of the phenomena produced by the early electrics kicking seven bells out of the permanent way.
     
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  2. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    Some traditional passings on our railways are less widely mourned than others! :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
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  3. nanstallon

    nanstallon Part of the furniture

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    Agreed. Let's imagine that the Brighton Belle had not been axed in 1972, and was still in the regular timetable. Assuming (and it's a big assumption) that the same stock was being used, it would have been modernised to comply with present day requirements as to health and safety etc. You can't freeze trains in aspic.
     
  4. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    I have .... however you slice it, the old stock was well and truly knackered by withdrawl, but perhaps, with the will to do it, something could've been realised around the MKII profile. Different times though....when the old Belle died, the eliteism it was perceived to represent was dying too. Back then, if it didn't look good dipped in woad, it was toast.
     
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  5. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson New Member

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    1972, and the drab new world of "one size fits all". Shudder...
     
  6. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    100% YES! Recreating a bygone age doesn't equate to living in it.
     
  7. SilentHunter86

    SilentHunter86 Member

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    You'd probably have had a Belle version of the Electrostar by now.
     
  8. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    You never know.....we still might!
     
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  9. JohnElliott

    JohnElliott New Member

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    There was, I believe, a suggestion to replace them with the Midland Pullman trains, which would only have been about 12 years old at the time. Though given their reliability, it might have been necessary to drop the power cars and have them push-pull with an electric locomotive, like the Gatwick Express in the 1980s.
     
  10. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    Easily overlooked from this distance, but in the early 70's, egalitarianism was 'in' and elitism 'out'. Pullmans were firmly in the 'eletist' category. This was the era of Denis Healey 'taxing the pips till they squeak' and so it remained until the start of Tina's reign in '79.
     
  11. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres

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    You have to look at the reality of the situation, the old traction gear and bogies were not the best, or most modern and there are no spares other than the spares that VSOE may hold , so in reality with original equipment its a non runner, So the plan to utilize 400 series traction gear and B5 bogies, both of which are still in use, today so technical knowledge is still current, We are in 2017, and to run on todays railway fitments are needed that were never part of the original fitment, So a restore to original fitment is a non starter if you want to run a 5 belle in 2017/18
    For the customers what will they want? they will want an authentic Pullman experience , so internally the coaches have to look the part, the average customer will not know or even think, its got modern traction motors what they will want is for it to be clean comfortable and to not break down ;)
     
  12. Romsey

    Romsey Active Member

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    Using 400 series control gear and B5 bogies was a sensible decision when the project started. We forget how quickly time passes and that the last 400 series slam door units finished in regular service over 10 years ago. So I don't think there is much 400 series traction equipment in use anymore. Even de-icers and sandites are operated by GP TRAMMS on the Southern and Anglia routes.
    From memory the only units with cam shaft controls and ep brakes are 455 & 456 units which haven't been re-tractioned, 442's before the SWR ones are fitted with ac traction motors and the class 73's which avoided modernisation.

    Cheers, Neil
     
  13. Romsey

    Romsey Active Member

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    Be careful what you wish for! With the wonders of open access operators, a quick application of vinyls, anti-macassars and a franchised Starbucks catering service. (Other brands of overpriced coffee are available....)

    Cheers, Neil
     
  14. Phil-d259

    Phil-d259 Member

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    In which case there the capability to service and repair the traction gear being fitted to the Belle still exists. Granted when the last original 455s have gone then things might get a bit more tricky but its not exactly unsolvable.
     
  15. SilentHunter86

    SilentHunter86 Member

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    One change will be replacing all the 2+2 seating with wider 2+1 seating on the grounds that British backsides are bigger.
     
  16. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Probably more attractive to couples too ... Whatever the size of their posteriors.
     
  17. SilentHunter86

    SilentHunter86 Member

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    So they can recreate that scene from Casino Royale as they pass Three Bridges?
     
  18. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton New Member

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    Umbrage
     
  19. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

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    Fair cop!
     
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  20. Steve B

    Steve B Active Member

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    What's "The Archers" got to do with it?
    :)
    Steve B
     
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