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60009

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by BillyReopening, Apr 17, 2016.

  1. dublo6231

    dublo6231 Member

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    I would just like to say thank you John for all the memories...

    My first encounter with number 9 was at Kilmarnock station in August 1990 running as Osprey, we had been tipped of by a friendly fitter at Motherwell depot of the date and approximate time that she was due to take on water in the station.
    Words can not describe my feelings as a then 13 year old lad who had played with (3 rail Silver King on my late grandads layout) but not seen an A4 in steam up close and personal. I'm fairly certain that JC was in the cab that day and gave myself and the rest of the family a personal tour of the cab. I think it would be fair to say I practically wet myself when I was allowed to sit on the drivers seat!

    Rather fittingly 60009 also hauled my first mainline steam tour from Kings X to York and return, hanging my head out of the window as we came down Stoke Bank in the dark with the wind in my hair (I had some in those days!) and the chime whistle sounding was something that I had dreamt about since that first encounter.

    Seeing her stood around the turntable with all her remaining sisters during the Great Gathering with my Dad and my son was again just something unique and amazing. Mallard may of been my sons favourite, but Number 9 was mine.

    My last trip behind her was the Scottish Lowlander: Carlisle - Beattock - Glasgow (alas we bypassed Kilmarnock) Ayr -Dumfries - Carlisle. The climb up Beattock was not particularly quick but the acceleration once we had crested the summit was quite simply exhilarating.

    So there we go - some personal reminiscences of my encounters with 60009.

    I know that it is unlikely that John will read this but thank you again - I've finished with tears in my eyes as I also recall my Grandad whom without I probably would not have had my love of steam and steam locomotives.
     
  2. Anthony Wiaczek

    Anthony Wiaczek New Member

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    I'm led to believe by a couple of locals, that planning permission has been in for a while. Going to try and do some digging as I'm back at FHR today.
     
  3. The Black Hat

    The Black Hat Active Member

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    I’d like to echo the sentiments expressed by many with regards to John’s ideas for 60009 and 61994. They are his engines and they are his to put into a museum that will create a long term future for them if that is what he wishes.

    I am sure consideration is given to the many issues that the museum idea will need to make it secure. While having the two engines will indeed be impressive, it will be needing funding and a business plan that place its long-term operation in a healthy position, even if it more or less covers its own costs for operating.

    Personally, Id thank John for the care and ownership he has shown with 60009 in particular. I don’t think many notice just yet how much of a chasm this will leave in Main Line steam. The A4 was the equivalent in terms of 8P motive power as Riley’s Black 5’s are for a standard too. The engine was phenomenally reliable in recent years and only lately has seen its operations curtailed slightly. It has been a great ambassador of steam, and engineering. Its presence, reliability, reputation and ability were all based upon John and the excellent team he had behind him. The engine is a fantastic machine and it will be indeed sad to see the engine plinthed and conserved, rather than preserved in a museum, as it has been proven to be one of the best performers on the mainline.

    Yes, the museum sounds like a nice idea – but I would rather see a custodian agreement with the likes of Mr Riley, or IoS, come about to keep this engine earning its money and earning its keep. Of course if it is that it does not earn enough for it to fiancé its own overhaul, then its place in the museum is more understanding, and sadly perhaps Union and the K4 will find their retirement a lot more secure than many others that are out there and still feel safe for now…
     
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  4. buzby2

    buzby2 Active Member

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    I too wish to compliment John Cameron.
    He has made a major contribution to main line steam operations over many, many years.
    When I lived in North London, and the friendly Scottish support crew were somewhat stretched with Kings Cross operations, I was privileged to help them once or twice.
    One 'marathon' KX-Scarborough-KX trip was quite memorable. I was tasked as Owners Representative between Peterborough and Doncaster. This was in the days before OTMR and to say it was exhilarating would be an understatement. Never thought I'd fire on the ECML - let alone at the speed we were doing!
     
  5. The Black Hat

    The Black Hat Active Member

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    Very nice Buzby, but I also think that will be one of the greatest shames of all this. If Union is plinthed, and put into a museum, one of the best performers on the mainline will be gone for a long time, possibly for ever. I know some engines are returning like 35018, but of the A4's I always thought that Unions maintenance and its operation was slick, accurate and in many ways sheer excellence. Union is a fantastic machine that performs superbly, even if lately it has one or two issues and its operations are slightly curtailed. I know one Cathedrals express it basically worked the whole tour and have seen it at speed on the network, working on preserved lines and in conjunction with the NRM. Its appearance too has always been fantastic.

    With Union you knew the standards were set as high as they could be, but very often delivered with a means that exceeded that target. Union for me is in a small but admirable league, joined by the likes of the K1, Riley's Black 5s, Clan Line, Cromwell, Earl of Mount Edgcumbe and yes... Tornado. There are many other good engines on the network, but if Union goes, it will leave a massive gap where its unlikely another engine is going to be equal.
     
  6. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Agreed, but racehorses cannot go on forever and have to be allowed a dignified retirement. That said, when I went to see UoSA and ride behind her at Lochty Farm, I thought at the time that this was no place for a locomotive like that and as it turned out, the A4 had better times ahead of her.

    As I said earlier, this is clearly an owner decision and that should be respected especially given the massive contribution that both the loco and John Cameron has given to the heritage movement over 50 years. In the absence of any possibility whereby the locomotive could continue in service through other parties with alternative funding arrangements, what is being rumoured will at least mean that the engine will be on display for future generations to enjoy. (I seem to remember that in England we have a much larger museum that does exactly that with another A4.)
     
  7. 5944

    5944 Part of the furniture

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    20th July 2002, King's Cross - Scarborough - Doncaster. I was on the support crew that day too. Lightning strike north of York in the afternoon, and when we arrived there everything was running late. As you say, good job there was no OTMR back then! The support coach had had severe wheel flats for months and had just had its wheels turned. The flats were put back on with the arrival at Doncaster after a storming run from York!
     
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  8. buzby2

    buzby2 Active Member

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    Ah yes, my ageing memory has been jogged about the Lincolnshire Coast Express. I think you and I travelled back on the cushions [in Admin BSK?] from Doncaster as 60009 and support coach came off there and we needed to get back to Stevenage and Kings Cross respectively.
    I hope all continues to go tolerably well at Hornsey. I was based at KX until 2007 so it was 'second home' really. The major siding changes, plus new Thameslink shed near the old Coronation Shed site, makes it look a wholeheartedly 'alien' layout now.
     
  9. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

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    Since anyone last posted on this thread, quite a few tours using "Number Nine" have been posted on both the RTC and SD websites, including some a very long way from Scotland. I for one am very grateful to Mr Cameron and his support crew that over the next two years, his fine engine will be hauling trains across the length and breadth of the country and not just in Scotland before entering into retirement.
     
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  10. daveannjon

    daveannjon Active Member

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    Good to know 60009 is in Ian Riley's care, he should be used to Gresley's ways by now. Hopefully ready for Easter.

    Dave
     
  11. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Well-Known Member

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    I have put my money where my mouth is, and booked to go behind her on a London Victoria circular tour. One last chance to hear the Gresley beat of no.9 - and 9 as always been my lucky number...
     
  12. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    One question I've always had about Union of South Africa is, how do you know what way round do you put the smokebox numberplate back on after you've done any work involving taking it off ?;):)
     
  13. The Black Hat

    The Black Hat Active Member

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    Personally, if you were asking me - that would be the best result possible. Rather than plinth this marvellous machine - I can't understand why Mr Cameron doesnt make Mr Riley custodian of his engine, with certain terms and conditions as desired. That way an excellent legacy is maintained and rather than plinth the engine in a museum, that will need to maintain a large through put of people to ensure its continuation, I think the better option would be for No. 9 to continue doing what it is right now. Without doubt Mr Riley, would be the best, the most trusted and the most respectful person, to continue to maintain the engine under a custodian agreement.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
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  14. 46223

    46223 Part of the furniture

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    Maybe it has 'this way up' stencilled on the back? I know, time I was in bed. :Yawn: :)
     
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  15. Big Dave

    Big Dave Member

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    Seems people here forget conveniently that both these engines ran successfully for years from Bridgnorth. Two guys there probably know as much or more than most about setting Gresley valve gear having been schooled in the art by the late Bill Harvey.
     
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  16. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    One of them is now the CME of ELR.
     
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  17. Big Dave

    Big Dave Member

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    Who would that be, I was not aware that either had left the SVR
     
  18. 60017

    60017 Part of the furniture Friend

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    And who is going to find the £750,000 - One million quid for a heavy general overhaul after the current main line ticket expires?
     
  19. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    The guys who had their cheque books ready to buy either 60008 or 60010 if the current owners had wanted to sell?
     
  20. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Only if they were the owners and that isn't going to happen unless there is a big change of mind.
     
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