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35011 General Steam Navigation

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by GSN, May 15, 2015.

  1. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

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    Acquiring the ownership and getting practical work on the loco started are two major steps forward, but there is a very long way to go, particularly in raising the huge amount of money that will be needed. Is the planned share issue intended to cover most of that or are there plans for other sources of money?

    I remain dubious about the wisdom of restoring all the original design features that were troublesome enough to trigger the rebuilding; in particular the chain-drive for the valve gear, which was adopted only because the geared drive originally intended could not be produced in the wartime conditions.
     
  2. huochemi

    huochemi Active Member Friend

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    The whistle seems to have an unusually long thread protruding from the base. The attached shows the components of a dismantled whistle. The whistle screws onto the short angle piece which screws onto the valve body. Were there variations?
     

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  3. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

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    I'd disagree with that. Without massively wishing to get into the "rebuilt - better or worse" debate, a number of the features that initially caused problems were improved during the lifetime of the originals (particularly the reverser performance, by dint of various modifications set out in another thread); and modern experience has also increased knowledge of how to get the locos to run reliably, particularly for a loco that is used occasionally, rather than daily. Taking Tangmere as a prototype, it has certainly had its problems on the mainline, but I am not sure that they are specifically more frequent and to do with the valve gear. The most serious mechanical issue - the Winchfield incident - was not specifically to do with the chain driven valve gear, so presumably wouldn't have been any less likely to occur had the valve gear been modified. By contrast, developing an entirely novel bevel-geared valve gear seems fraught with numerous design problems for an outcome that may not in the end prove to be an improvement.

    Restoring the loco in rebuilt form - well, given the number of other MNs running or potentially running, that's a bit "meh" from a fundraising point of view. So I think restoring the loco in original condition, but incorporating all the known reverser mods, better oil bath seals etc, coupled with the fact that preserved locos tend to get better maintenance than they did in BR days, seems like the way to go for me.

    Tom
     
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  4. CH 19

    CH 19 Active Member Friend

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    I am no expert,but I would have thought that because GSN will not be expected to run the sorts of milages/frequencies/loads that the SR or BR(S) expected or indeed that Mr Bulleid envisaged for her design this will be no major problem. Lets face it when original there were a lot of worried rice puddings about:), and surely with hindsight and todays technology her 'shortcomings' can be managed.
    Edit. Sorry, Tom beat me to it
     
  5. siquelme

    siquelme Active Member

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    Hi,

    The whistle itself is the same on both variations on the design but they were attached to the whistle valve in different ways.

    This photo of 92 Squadrons whistle valve and thread clearly shows the difference.

    [​IMG]

    On the 'Spam Cans' the whistles were located in the top of the casing rather which this other photo from 92 Squadron shows. This meant it was further away from the valve compared to the rebuilds so more pipe work is needed.

    [​IMG]



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. huochemi

    huochemi Active Member Friend

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    Thanks, that's useful, difficult to get pics of the whistles on the unrebuilt versions.
     
  7. siquelme

    siquelme Active Member

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    I took me ages to find these, luckily the 92 Squadron team are very good at recording its overhaul so you can find gems like these.
     
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  8. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    As suggested above, there has been relatively little complaint about the chain-driven valve gear in preservation, so its adoption is eminently suitable as it is presumably a known quantity amongst owners of unrebuilt light pacifics. The oil bath also appears to pay dividends now it seems possible to keep the thing sealed properly- look at pictures of 34072's valve gear after nearly 10 years in open storage. The steam reverser can also be modified to improve reliability, so in effect, there is no reason why a 21st century unrebuilt MN won't be a reliable machine.
     
  9. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

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    Have we ever been told exactly what caused Tangmere to fail on the way back from Plymouth on 2nd August last year? Was it the chain drive, the reverser, or what?
     
  10. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    If it was the valve gear, it would have been out of action for a lot longer than one month. I'd have said it was the reverser stuck in a disadvantageous position at the bottom of the climb.
     
  11. siquelme

    siquelme Active Member

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    BREAKING NEWS: 35011s Exciting Opportunity

    In May we were presented with a fantastic opportunity which we can now finally share with you. The society has been offered a huge quantity of spare parts from another Bulleid project and the purchase of these components would save our project thousands of pounds and cut years off the expected time scale of the restoration. The components the society has agreed to purchase which include a steam reverser, a set of connecting rods, pressure and vacuum gauges, full set of oil atomisers for the cylinders, a split sprocket for chain drive, oil sump pump, cab oil trays and lids and many more crucial parts. In order to fund the purchase of these parts it was decided to launch a share offer in General Steam Navigation which we now invite you to join.

    Click the link below to find out more about our opportunity and the rewards you get for a being a shareholder in 35011.

    www.35011GSN.co.uk/shares.html


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    The end for 34073?
     
  13. ghost

    ghost Well-Known Member

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    What makes you think that?


    Keith
     
  14. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture

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    ITs more likily stocks of spares, i know 35018 had a set of motion made in china, whilst not suitable for mainline( no certificate as to spec of metal complies with mainline) the coupling rods are the same i believe between rebuilt and unrebuilt, the crank bits are also the same except for the sprocket, so it could be spares that were assembled, but not sold when the engine changed hands.
     
  15. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    I can accept that same parts may be recently manufactured spares, but where would items like a steam reverser and an oil sump pump have come from? As a matter of interest, if the aim is to return 35011 to spam can condition, would the cylinders and crank axle from 34073 be of any use?
     
  16. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture

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    yes , if the cylinders are the same size and stroke as on the original MN , if it were to be reduced to spares, then maybe some parts could be swopped, as the wheel sets are the same size cylinders off 35011 could become spares for 35018, or even 34016, if both are the same, the plain driver could also be of use ,once retyred , i must admit, such a swop could reduce the time and cost of returning 35011 to as built but it would be at the cost of 34073, unless someone wanted to rebuild it some 60 years after the last was rebuilt under BR.
     
  17. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

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    There must be vast stocks of pacific bits squirrelled away up and down the country in containers and rusting in the grass. All those locos that went to Barry were complete. All the missing bits have been pilfered, stolen or purchased legally. However they left I would guess most of the big bits are out there somewhere. Also hazard a guess that most of the people that originally liberated them have either moved on or died. Therfore the large lumps of metal lurking in yards and containers up and down the country are probably unwanted and in the way!

    Also be interesting to know where the fabled missing containers of parts that were stolen from the Brocklebank Line Group have ended up...
     
  18. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    I'm sure that you are right, but you are missing the point. Whilst bits and pieces may have been removed and put in store no locos apart from the GW 2-6-2T and 9F were cut up in the preservation era so the number of large spares like the steam reverser floating around must equate to the number of preserved locos, so who is lacking one? The other possibility is that someone had the foresight to acuire such items from depot stores when they were closed - but would a steam reverser or a sump oil pump be a stores item?

    Brocklebank Line might be a source of some items on day, but as a rebuilt pacific I don't belive it had either a steam reverser or an oil sump pump. The source of spares such as these is an interesting subject!
     
  19. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    I shouldn't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that steam reversers have been or can be produced from new in preservation.
     
  20. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Active Member

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    It never ceases to amaze me what turns up. I was talking to the owner of Jinty 47406 some while ago and he told me how he found the chimney for the loco. If I have the story right, he or a friend spotted it in someone's garden, serving as a flower pot, in the background to an interview or something, on a video. Made contact via the makers of the video and bought it. Who could predict such a thing?

    Granted a chimney is a little less weird as a garden ornament that an oil sump pump, but who knows what there is out there, really?
     

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